Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

also.roybahat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 105 posts

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#21

Post by zyb09 »

moocow01 wrote: post #11
zyb09 wrote: post #7

Of course! It's gonna be THE profession. I imaging in the future more and more things will be doable in 'software'. For example, manufacturing factories will be so automated and full of robots, that you can actually start building assembly lines in pure code. Subway & Railroad systems will drive completely by them self, controlled by code. Container ships & harbours might operate someday purely driven by software. Bo…

Sorry but I have to completely disagree that someday all we will need is just coders. Code is just a way of getting a computer to do something specific. So what should a computer do? Usually a computer should do something identified as valuable. So who figures out what is valuable? Typically everyone else... business people, researchers, administrators, doctors, analysts, etc. Having just a bunch of coders would be e…

true, although the point I was making is that sooner or later fields like agriculture, energy, manufacturing, transportation, logistics and others will be completely automated and just require coders to operate. That leaves some other fields, but these are huge parts of the economy. That's not gonna happen tomorrow of course, but we'll gradually get towards is and coder demand is just increase steadily over time.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#23

Post by Nitramp »

Citation missing, but I've read a paper that claimed rather convincingly that you need a certain mindset both to be good at programming and to enjoy programming (unsurprisingly, this comes hand in hand).

It's not really problem solving, it's rather a specific kind of structured thinking. It's the attention to detail and the will to think through every aspect of an issue, to find a complete solution. That's also a useful skill outside of software or even engineering (I'd imagine law isn't all that different in that regard), but apparently it's really critical for software engineering. At the same time it's not necessarily linked to general intelligence or problem solving ability or creative thinking, it's just a particular way of approaching problems.

Said lost article had tests showing that only a small fraction of the population thinks this way, something below 10%.

Of course this isn't proven, but it matches with my personal experience. This always makes me very skeptical of things like end user programming, or programming as a mass profession. People without the skill can create programs, in particular in environments, but the results are usually quite fragile and expensive to maintain. "Real" programmers can usually create much greater value at lower cost, so there really isn't much of a point in employing lots of "not really" programmers.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#24

Post by richcollins »

eternalban wrote: post #18
moocow01 wrote: post #8

I think the shortage of software development skills really has to do with the lack of there being enough people who get impassioned with this kind of stuff. When I step out of my bubble I realize that its really difficult to find cultural-personality fits for what building software requires. Most people are just not like 'us' for better or worse. Most people don't get giddy over implementing a new algorithm or buildi…

"Most people are just not like 'us' for better or worse. Most people don't get giddy over running implementing a new algorithm or building an elegant framework, etc..." The question is if commodity software development -- you know, yet another 'book keeping' CRUD app -- requires any serious algorithm much less "new" ones. Serious creative mind workers are generally outliers, regardless of the field. Programmers: http…

Hopefully we'll be able to automate CRUD app development in the near future and eliminate the time developers waste building such apps.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#25

Post by Sufrostico »

agscala wrote: post #5
kls wrote: post #2

I think the piece is overly optimistic about the prospects of coding becoming common place. We have dealt with the software crisis since the inception of software and up till now, no one has proposed an even half way plausible plan on how to address it. As such until someone solve the software crisis in a measurable way that can improve the quality and predictability of code. It will remain a craft, as such only the…

I agree, and also I'd like to add something. While it's not really an attractive job to many people, it's also relatively difficult for most people. Farming is different in that it's easy for anyone to do (it's just manual labor). Realistically, you can't expect a large portion of the population to be capable of programming.

Farming "Just manual labor"?

Common, have you ever tried to plant something?

THAT is difficult!

Any profession could become a mass profession.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#26

Post by aiscott »

kenjackson wrote: post #20
moocow01 wrote: post #8

I think the shortage of software development skills really has to do with the lack of there being enough people who get impassioned with this kind of stuff. When I step out of my bubble I realize that its really difficult to find cultural-personality fits for what building software requires. Most people are just not like 'us' for better or worse. Most people don't get giddy over implementing a new algorithm or buildi…

I think the shortage of software development skills really has to do with the lack of there being enough people who get impassioned with this kind of stuff. I was at a party recently I was asking someone about their work. I was really interested in how they solved certain problems, etc... We were probably only talking a minute or so when she says, "Can we not talk about my job and ask me about my car or some great me…

I don't like talking about my job because it's so esoteric from most people's perspectives. I think a lot of people at least have some small idea about what programming is about. I'm a digital ASIC designer. Next to nobody you randomly meet has any clue what that is about.

It actually sucks in a lot of ways because talking about work is an ice breaker, even for people that don't like talking about their work. For me, somebody asking about my work just adds another relational barrier.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#27

Post by danso »

I wish coding were viewed as not just a profession, but a necessary skill to be literate in today's world. It seems impossible to me that our society can keep up with the pace and breadth of information that our digital-systems create.

And I don't mean that everyone should be able to understand assembly. I'd almost be happy if the average person can understand what makes a comma-delimited file parsable by Excel. Seriously...try asking someone who is not in the computing field about that.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#28

Post by eternalban »

richcollins wrote: post #24
eternalban wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most people are just not like 'us' for better or worse. Most people don't get giddy over running implementing a new algorithm or building an elegant framework, etc..." The question is if commodity software development -- you know, yet another 'book keeping' CRUD app -- requires any serious algorithm much less "new" ones. Serious creative mind workers are generally outliers, regardless of the field. Programmers: http…

Hopefully we'll be able to automate CRUD app development in the near future and eliminate the time developers waste building such apps.

We'll have to, there is no other way. The demand side of our field is industrial scale. The supply side is arts and crafts. Something will have to give.

MDA, Software factories, etc., are imho the way to go, but unfortunately, there is strong resistance in the current generation to "ceremonial" architectures and methodologies (which are /unfortunately/ a requirement for that to happen, in my opinion).

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#29

Post by gnaritas »

BrokerChange wrote: post #12

Farming became obsolete because of economies of scale. Factory work became obsolete because of economies of scale. Manufacturing became obsolete because of economies of scale. What do you think is our generation's economy of scale? I think the near future will involve making it possible for anyone, even those without a technical background, to quickly build beautiful internet products. What do you think is the next b…

None of those things became obsolete, they just moved to cheaper labor pools.

> What would make coding obsolete?

Nothing except full blown AI.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#30

Post by danso »

ZoltonVonMises wrote: post #22

I certainly hope it does not become the next mass profession. I don't understand people that want everyone to learn to code. Its simple supply and demand, friends. As the supply of coders goes up, demand for my services go down.

Maybe that would be the case in other professions...but as a coder, I would LOVE to have more people involved in it. I think programming is one of those areas in which a rising tide lifts all boats.

I find that most of my time is either dumbing things down (i.e. printing the output of a relational database into a flat spreadsheet or worse, a PDF) for those who barely understand basic Excel or attempting to parse such dumbed-down information from other systems. If it were status quo in this world to understand the concept of delimitation and meta-data, my ability to create even more compelling applications, visualizations, and analyses would be greatly multiplied.

Post reply on HN