Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 463 posts

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#91

Post by nradov »

gwbas1c wrote: post #28

Tesla is a battery manufacturer that happens to make cars. Remember, they also make the Powerwall and grid-scale storage. I think the bigger question we should ask ourselves is, "What is a tech company?"

Tesla has only delivered a handful of relatively small "Megapack" grid storage battery systems so far. And they have had multiple fires.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/20/tesla-megapack-battery-caugh...

Grid storage might eventually be a major business for Tesla but I doubt that it will drive huge profits. They don't have any unique sustainable competitive advantage and the customers are extremely price sensitive, so I expect long term profit margins to be low.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#93

Post by cvak »

cainxinth wrote: post #45
judge2020 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference seems to be that Tesla was 5-10 years ahead on everything: Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, and of course they lead the way in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time. But you're right that other automakers see Tesla as a threat and are catching up; for example, the range and charging curve improvements on mode…

> Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance None of that is why Tesla was ahead of everyone for so long. It's because their cars have better range, and Tesla is still the range leader. They held four of the top six spots in 2022, and the number one is the Lucid Air (only 3k of them have actually been sold): https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32634624/ev-lo... Also, I just want to…

I think it's range per $, and I think tesla just about started loosing there last year.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#94

Post by wazoox »

msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

Actually after having tested a couple of other cars, for instance the Renault Megane, the BMW i4 and the Mercedes EQE have better enhanced drive assistance than Tesla. For instance:

* when in full-auto on a single lane road, when there's an exit on the right the Tesla 3 almost always slightly swerve towards the exit before coming back in its lane. None of the Megane, the EQE or the BMW i4 do that.

* To overtake a slower vehicle, the Megane and i4 are better : simply push the left blinker, then the car switch lanes and accelerates BEFORE having entirely switched lane, like a human driver would do.

* The mapping and charge planning on the BMW and particularly the EQE/EQS are arguably slightly superior now to Tesla (though Tesla is still a bit easier). Renault is very close, and Kia/Hyundai isn't far behind either.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#95

Post by moonchrome »

elil17 wrote: post #55
moonchrome wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. I'm not sure outsourcing manufacturing and focusing on design works in auto industry - but could be wrong.

You’re wrong. Auto manufacturers source parts from a huge variety of outside manufacturers. Auto manufacturers: 1) manage supply chain (hardest part) 2) spec parts (establish quality metrics, change small aspects of design) 3) come up with car concepts 4) assemble parts certain components (e.g. weld the frame, install all the premade parts) They are not building or designing every component in a car - not even close.

I mean what do you expect - for them to build everything down to a screw in-house in order to do manufacturing ?

Final assembly, fit and finish - those are very important things on high end cars - and as Tesla demonstrated - not that easy to do even when you're flush with cash.

Apple outsources all of it's production - I'd be surprised if they can get premium car assembly from Foxconn model when Tesla is still having issues.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#96

Post by theduder99 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #66
nradov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most car buyers don't actually want minimalistic interiors.

Some people like black overstuffed couches. Some people like Danish modern.

Last time I went car shopping, I saw a digital speedometer which irritated me for some reason so I rejected that model from further consideration.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#97

Post by warinukraine »

cainxinth wrote: post #45
judge2020 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference seems to be that Tesla was 5-10 years ahead on everything: Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, and of course they lead the way in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time. But you're right that other automakers see Tesla as a threat and are catching up; for example, the range and charging curve improvements on mode…

> Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance None of that is why Tesla was ahead of everyone for so long. It's because their cars have better range, and Tesla is still the range leader. They held four of the top six spots in 2022, and the number one is the Lucid Air (only 3k of them have actually been sold): https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32634624/ev-lo... Also, I just want to…

Does tesla have better range because they have better batteries, or just bigger batteries?

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#98

Post by Octoth0rpe »

msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

> I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car.

This shouldn't have to be a position that requires any kind of defense or explanation. There's nothing contradictory about believing that:

1) A company makes a great product 2) The quality of that product and its total addressable market justifies the company's value at $X 3) The market cap of that company is far, far higher than $X

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#99

Post by pjc50 »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #27

Tesla owns so much data that it has collected(and will only continue to amass more in the future)from its customers that it is the very definition of a successful tech company. Economist is an embarrassment for journalism.

Is that much personal data an asset or a liability?

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#100

Post by HDThoreaun »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #8

Why are Rivian and Lucid stocks also getting hammered? All 3 seem to move together. Feels more like EV stocks being dumped.

Legacy car companies have big manufacturing advantages and are coming out with competitive designs.
Post reply on HN