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What Is AGI-Hard

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81–90 of 129 posts

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#81
post #8

> Can AI invent calculus from first principles? The thing is, most people can't. In fact, if you reinvented calculus yourselves, you should be very proud of your mathematical ability.

I would be surprised if we did not already have AIs that could invent calculus from first principles. LLMs solve natural langage and common sense, which are not necessary for discovering calculus.

LLMs have not 'solved' either language or common sense. They will unknowingly and quite blatantly contradict themselves, for instance.

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does human-level intelligence mean? What about a simple test: it means being able to create better versions of ChatGPT and StableDiffusion. Can an AI create a better version of itself, all by itself? Because humans are going to create better versions of ChatGPT. So no matter the exact definition of "intelligence" or "human intelligence", the goal is simple: create a better version of itself and it'll be consid…

So, most humans are not intelligent then? Because I don't think that an average human can create a better version of ChatGPT / StableDiffusion. Or a better version of itself, if that is the baseline. Or do you count evolution here? But evolution does not necessarily lead to higher intelligence. But also: Once you have some model or algorithm for intelligence, where you just need to scale up the size / training data,…

What would be the point of defining intelligence as only that which average humans can do? Is what humanity as a species can achieve something else? Does putting aside the latter help?

> You can ask [ChatGPT] how to improve itself. I'm sure the answers it will give will actually improve it.

Personally, I'm skeptical, but at least it is testable.

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#83

As LeCun always says: The term "AGI" is a bit ill-formed. What does "general" really mean? Human intelligence is not really general. It's actually very very specialized towards the world we live in. So he prefers the term "human-level intelligence", or maybe super-human-level at some point. Another implication: It's not really a yes/no property, whether you have AGI or not. It's a level of intelligence. And this leve…

In normal situations you don't need speech recognition, but to drive as well as a human in all possible situations you do. What if there is an emergency and there is a loudspeaker giving drivers instructions on how to turn around?

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#84
post #14

[author here] oh wow, surprised to see this here! it flopped the first time I posted it. questions/corrections/additions welcome!

There's not one mention of AI having a body in your article. IMO, this is the primary missing factor in discussing the technology. And memories of that body's experience, of course.

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does human-level intelligence mean? What about a simple test: it means being able to create better versions of ChatGPT and StableDiffusion. Can an AI create a better version of itself, all by itself? Because humans are going to create better versions of ChatGPT. So no matter the exact definition of "intelligence" or "human intelligence", the goal is simple: create a better version of itself and it'll be consid…

So, most humans are not intelligent then? Because I don't think that an average human can create a better version of ChatGPT / StableDiffusion. Or a better version of itself, if that is the baseline. Or do you count evolution here? But evolution does not necessarily lead to higher intelligence. But also: Once you have some model or algorithm for intelligence, where you just need to scale up the size / training data,…

>Because I don't think that an average human can create a better version of ChatGPT / StableDiffusion

probably not without lots of years of education, no.

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised if we did not already have AIs that could invent calculus from first principles. LLMs solve natural langage and common sense, which are not necessary for discovering calculus.

LLMs have not 'solved' either language or common sense. They will unknowingly and quite blatantly contradict themselves, for instance.

That's only because memories haven't been fully developed for AI, yet. Most LLM examples don't know what they said in response to input from yesterday, much less from 5 minutes ago.

Additionally, without a construct, like a body, in which to store these memories, AGI will continue to disappoint those who do.

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#87
post #9

This article is a bit too hand-wavy for my taste. As a buzzword, AGI Hard sounds cool but until intelligence is more strictly defined (and the modifiers “artificial” and “general” aren’t helping) AGI will always be something we talk about rather than something known. I was also a bit amused at the list of things which the author also claims to be AGI hard. But this is just a list of things we think are difficult. Phy…

> This article is a bit too hand-wavy for my taste. From the article: "I think this is the sort of debate that makes good podcast fodder". So the article author admits that. It's hand-wavy on vision. Parts of vision are not "AGI-hard". A key component of self-driving is something that can determine whether a volume of space is empty, occupied, or ambiguous. It's necessary to have something that does not report "empty…

> of vision are not "AGI-hard". A key component of self-driving is something that can determine whether a volume of space is empty, occupied, or ambiguous. It's necessary to have something that does not report "empty" for occupied areas, and has a reasonably high accuracy rate on not emitting false reports of "occupied". There are sensor suites which can do that. LIDAR can do that. If you have data from a few viewpoints, you can do that. Musk has tried to turn it into an AGI problem, but that's his problem, not a property of the problem space. (If you look at California DMV autonomous vehicle crash reports, the successful companies have solved "is that area empty", and are now struggling with "what is that other car/pedestrian/bicycle going to do?")

Isn't the latter part of vision the part that's "AGI" hard though, and why the article talks/handwaves about "perfect visual reasoning" and not basic classification and object tracking/predicting? LIDAR can determine there's an obstruction in the road, driving AI can determine that the obstruction appears to consist of people and their intent is not possible to predict with any confidence based on observations in its training set, a human applies higher level reasoning to infer - without having seen a visually similar group of people before - that they're protestors showing demonstrable hostility to vehicles that should be avoided, a rabble of drunks pouring out of a neighbouring venue that may part in response to forward movement and judicious use of the horn, or an organized event which probably has a set route and finishing time which can be ascertained by stopping to speak to them. Plus, of course, it can handle the non-vision based bits of that scenario without having done so before.

> A big surprise, and shock to many, has been the discovery that punditry, and what passes for intellectualism in some quarters, can be done by a really good autocomplete with a big training set. This says more about human discourse than it does about AI

I strongly agree with this. It's akin to Moravec's paradox. Turns out a machine can give mediocre-undergraduate level responses to complex abstract questions about human psychology purely by pattern matching what people have written (which isn't dissimilar to how mediocre undergraduates approach the question...) whilst possessing less actionable insight into human emotion than the average dog. And we've managed that without having a clue how to make a computer happy or angry.

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#88
The goal posts aren't moving, or not more than in any other technology.

The graphics of the N64 where super realistic at the time and people will complain that COD games from 3 years ago looks dated.

When will graphics be done? when they are higher fidelity than what we can perceive and we can no longer distinguish under no limitations of view time and input. When will AGI be done? when a human can no longer distinguish between a computer and human without limitations on time and input.

But I guess there is no article writing left to do than is there?

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#89

As LeCun always says: The term "AGI" is a bit ill-formed. What does "general" really mean? Human intelligence is not really general. It's actually very very specialized towards the world we live in. So he prefers the term "human-level intelligence", or maybe super-human-level at some point. Another implication: It's not really a yes/no property, whether you have AGI or not. It's a level of intelligence. And this leve…

> What does human-level intelligence mean? What about a simple test: it means being able to create better versions of ChatGPT and StableDiffusion. Can an AI create a better version of itself, all by itself? Because humans are going to create better versions of ChatGPT. So no matter the exact definition of "intelligence" or "human intelligence", the goal is simple: create a better version of itself and it'll be consid…

>Can an AI create a better version of itself, all by itself?

Can you?

Re: What Is AGI-Hard

#90
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As LeCun always says: The term "AGI" is a bit ill-formed. What does "general" really mean? Human intelligence is not really general. It's actually very very specialized towards the world we live in. So he prefers the term "human-level intelligence", or maybe super-human-level at some point. That’s kind of a silly semantic argument though. It also assumes that everyone interested in AGI is trying to make “human-leve…

I just wanted to stress the point that "general" is misleading (no intelligence will ever be truly general), and the term "AGI" is somewhat unclear. Some people mean human-level intelligence, some people just mean some reasonable intelligent agent in a number of tasks, some people really mean a truly-general intelligence, being able to handle any problem (unlike a human). In the post, when arguing about "AGI-hard", t…

> Driving needs some intelligence which is a bit generic but still different to other general intelligences, so it is not AGI-hard.

For automated driving to be acceptable within society it is going have to be at least as good as an average human driver.

In an urban street most non-speeding human drivers will see a child with a puppy off the lead and will understand that that child will be very likely to run after the puppy if it jumps into the road (And will most likely slow down in anticipation).

AGI, according to Wikipedia, is "the ability of an intelligent agent to understand or learn any intellectual task that a human being can".

How in general can an automated driving perform as well as a system with a human in the loop if it does not richly model human behaviour, i.e. achieve AGI?

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