Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
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Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
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Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#2Is Lithium the only barrier to EV's? Are there any global supply chain logistical issues that may arise should ongoing conflicts escalate? Do the same supply chain issues affect ICE and EV's equally? I honestly do not know but I see this get brought up when people discuss EV's more so than Lithium.
Could the existing coal mining companies transition or relocate to locations rich in Lithium, possibly offering their employees relocation bonuses? Some of the coal mining companies are in the process of shutting down and it seems like money could be saved by repurposing some of the equipment and utilizing some of the coal mining team experience. Could states offer financial incentives to relocate and switch to mining Lithium?
Are we still reliant on Cobalt as part of the Lithium battery? There is an interview with Siddharth Kara that suggests all lithium batteries contain cobalt and thusly depend on child slave labor. [1]
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIWvk3gJ_7E [video][14 mins]
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#3Is Lithium the only barrier to EV's? Are there any global supply chain logistical issues that may arise should ongoing conflicts escalate? Do the same supply chain issues affect ICE and EV's equally? I honestly do not know but I see this get brought up when people discuss EV's more so than Lithium. Could the existing coal mining companies transition or relocate to locations rich in Lithium, possibly offering their em…
Yes, the Lithium and Cobalt sources we have currently running wouldn't be enough to turn every single vehicle in the world to an EV.
But we don't need to do that.
New mines for both Lithium and Cobalt are being started, new battery chemistries are being investigated (including ones based on _wood_ [0]), there is also the option of ethanol/biogas/biodiesel for existing ICEs and maybe even green hydrogen if someone manages to optimise the process about 5x to make it cost-effective.
And the main thing people tend to forget: EV batteries are highly recyclable. We're up to 90% now, closing up on 95%. The biggest thing keeping it from being a huge industry is lack of batteries to recycle.
Like the article says, reuse of old EV batteries is a hugely valid option, more so than recycling. A 50kWh battery with 50% capacity loss is till a 25kWh battery, which will run a full American McMansion for a few days easily.
Compare that to ICEs where the fuel is literally burned up in smoke and is exactly 0% recyclable.
[0] https://www.storaenso.com/en/newsroom/regulatory-and-investo...
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#4[deleted]
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#5"It’s easy to imagine that decades from now, the chemistry of batteries will have changed so much that they will use two, three, or four times less than today."
It's easy to imagine, but is it even possible? My understanding is that the lithium is the charge carrier, and while there is some room to improve efficiency, less lithium means less capacity.
OTOH, it's quite possible that, eg, sodium batteries become viable, and the whole debate becomes moot.
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#6Is Lithium the only barrier to EV's? Are there any global supply chain logistical issues that may arise should ongoing conflicts escalate? Do the same supply chain issues affect ICE and EV's equally? I honestly do not know but I see this get brought up when people discuss EV's more so than Lithium. Could the existing coal mining companies transition or relocate to locations rich in Lithium, possibly offering their em…
Lithium iron phosphate (lifepo4) do not contain cobalt
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#7Is Lithium the only barrier to EV's? Are there any global supply chain logistical issues that may arise should ongoing conflicts escalate? Do the same supply chain issues affect ICE and EV's equally? I honestly do not know but I see this get brought up when people discuss EV's more so than Lithium. Could the existing coal mining companies transition or relocate to locations rich in Lithium, possibly offering their em…
> There is an interview with Siddharth Kara that suggests all lithium batteries contain cobalt and thusly depend on child slave labor
That is demonstrably not true. AFAIK the majority of EVs use LFP batteries that have no cobalt. The current RWD Model 3 in the US also uses LFP. That's the direction most EVs will probably head over the next few years.
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#8Sodium ion batteries work just as well and should be arriving this year [1].
[1] - https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinas-top-ev-battery-mak...
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#9One of the core problems with environmentalists, intelligent people and anyone left wing really is that we insist on doing nothing until we have a perfect solution. Instead of trading climate change for a lithium shortage, we will fail to push these cars because there might be some imperfection for someone somewhere someday. And a massive serious issue is better than a tiny possible future issue we didn't foresee.
Hence the world is run by stupid, selfish, shorttermists who "just do it".
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#10This article and the IEA sources that they rely on assumes that an EV is a car. That’s not a good assumption: electric bicycles and trikes like the Aptera are much better direction for the vast majority of individual transport.
At that size, you can rely on smaller batteries and solar panels for many journeys (it isn’t fully sufficient for an Aptera but an e-bicycle with a small roof can ride as long as the Sun shines).
Using three tons vehicles for long-distance journeys or for the transport of goods isn’t efficient: trains (and last-mile delivery on cargo bikes) are a lot more economical in both energy, accident risk and individual time (or vehicle investment if you assume an autonomous future).
If we don’t use the energy transition to shift away from the domination of heavy, polluting, deadly cars, we would have lost an opportunity.