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Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

thewalrus.ca

201–210 of 260 posts

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#201

I would love any input. My five year old daughter asked for a guitar on Christmas. I took her to the music store and let her pick a ukelele. She loves to play at it hard and sing, and doesn’t “get” that she’s just strumming blindly and making noise. it’s adorable but I wonder if there is something I can do to nudge her. At the moment I’m thinking to 1) act impressed when she plays 2) get my own and let her see how I…

Get your own ukulele, learn to play and inspire her to learn and get better! Ukuleles are great for jamming, so your second ukulele won't be a waste.

Learning to sing and strum chords at the same time was a transformative experience for me and incredible bang-for-buck compared to learning piano, because that immediately unlocks being able to perform most pop songs with chords. Someone above posted a great collection of pop songs written for ukulele that I can't wait to try playing tomorrow: https://sanjoseukeclub.org/song_book.html

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#202
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way, I just googled trumpet and trombone, and those are different instruments. Electric guitar and classical guitar are just different flavors of the same instrument. Most guitarists play both, if they've ever touched a classical guitar. Playing electric is both easier and less loud, if you don't plug in the amplifier, so they're a lot more suitable for kids than classical guitars. The association that parents hav…

Electric guitar is all about bending, rhythm, and processed guitar tone. Classical guitar is all about picking tone, speed, and fine variations of touch. (And intonation for the very best players.) The fret board isn't the same width. The notes are in the same places, but that's about it for similarity.

> Classical guitar is all about picking tone, speed, and fine variations of touch. (And intonation for the very best players.)

Not when I'm playing Green Day covers on it, it's not.

Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMoHRidtQcw

(You're confusing the instrument with the music it's most commonly used to play)

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#203
post #32

Because it's pointless!

I sort of agree. There is a lot of pointless cultist behavior around music.

For example: concerts. Music delivered in concerts is technically in every way worse then recorded. People are going to concerts to listen to music that is technically worse in every way. What this tells me and should tell you is that most people aren't only liking the music. There's a bunch of stuff around the music that they like, and the music itself is but one factor.

Additionally all music has very very common themes. If lyrics are involved the, lyrics tend to be revolved around Love or Power or Tragedy. This pattern of common themes indicates that music is biased biologically. It's used for very specific purposes in human biology, it is not some universal art form like say painting.

Another thing is that lyrics are horrible at conveying a point. Written text or normal speech is better yet tons of people are irrationally totally into lyrics that are "deep". Try writing a song about the point I'm conveying here and you'll see that it misses the point of music. The point of music is definitely not in communicating deep or complex messages. The point is to convey stupidly simple messages. Literally. All lyrics/poetry convey significantly more simple and stupider messages then plain text. You can't argue with this logically.

My theory is this. Music in human biology is for several things:

  -It's used as a mating call. (love songs)
  -It's used to promote group closeness and confidence (concerts)
  -It's used as a group mourning thing (singing at a funeral)
  -It's used to project power (Rock songs Rap songs)
This is why it's bullshit. It's rarely just about the music itself and it's more about the emotions and behavior music promotes. We're all falling into typical biological tropes and mistaking it for beauty. You are designed to like music the same way we're all designed to like fucking.

There is a rather small group though that does appreciate music for it's intrinsic properties: The mathematicians (I'm not part of this group). The people who like the music purely because of the patterns. Some people like stuff like fugues. When I listened to Bachs fugue after reading GEB, it sounded like pure crap to my ears, and it didn't trigger any associated emotions with the bullet points I made above. I think these people are biologically wired differently. Most people won't like what they like... Either way, typically this group is into music that is closer to or is classical music.

But still the group above sometimes still goes to live performance symphonies and stuff like that, which tells me again that it's not purely the music they are liking.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#204

Playing instruments do not pay the bills and are ultimately useless. (Unless you are in the top 1 percent that make it.)

I suspect most people have one or more hobbies. Not everything has to be about money.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree: TABS == good, sheet music == bad. (For beginners, anyway.)

A lot of people fluent in sheet music don't appreciate how incomprehensible and information-dense it really is. If you just want to play a song, it's the wrong way to go.

Lead sheets are great, they are not dense and get the most important parts across.

For other uses, the density is the thing and it can't be replaced by anything. Sheet music has syntax and structure in a way that makes it possible to learn to read it by chunks, unlike let's say piano roll.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hated to sound so grim... I've had some great experiences and I still do, nothing beats playing your music for crowds of people... The money is the problem. If you as a musician don't make it, there are others making it off of you. Scams are reampant. I just got an email from a fake Instagram account posing as a real journalist asking me for money for a feature in a big magazine... To tell you the truth it's…

Music is a great hobby and a terrible career. I love playing mandolin, and i'm taking up fiddle now. Someday I hope to learn piano. It's is all in good fun. My day job is programming. I'm lucky that I enjoy it as well, but there is only so much time I can write code in a day, and that is less than 8 hours (i'm glad for meetings for this reason, they prevent burn out) I get paid well for it.

I think the equation changed recently. Many more gigs, because so less people are playing an instrument to a certain level nowadays. Here in Hamburg Germany (with a population of 1.8m) there are maybe like two good pianists. It's actually relatively easy to earn money with music through concerts nowadays.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#207
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric guitar is all about bending, rhythm, and processed guitar tone. Classical guitar is all about picking tone, speed, and fine variations of touch. (And intonation for the very best players.) The fret board isn't the same width. The notes are in the same places, but that's about it for similarity.

> Classical guitar is all about picking tone, speed, and fine variations of touch. (And intonation for the very best players.) Not when I'm playing Green Day covers on it, it's not. Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMoHRidtQcw (You're confusing the instrument with the music it's most commonly used to play)

As a guitarist who plays both classical and electrical guitar, I must say that I side with the theory that both instruments are more different than they are alike.

Sure, you can play more or less the same things on both instruments, and anybody who plays electrical will be able to do something on an acoustic guitar and vice versa. But anybody who plays acoustic guitar will also be able to do something on a lute, a mandolin or heck even on a double bass. You will also be able to use your guitar to sound like an organ, a flute, or a synthesizer, with sufficient effect pedals.

For me what makes an instrument is the music it lends itself easily. Give a five year old who never played before an acoustic guitar with fresh strings and an electric guitar plugged into an amp and they will do completely different things with it, because the instruments lend itself to different things. Ironically an electric guitar can be much more direct, because you will hear every slight tiny movement of your fingers amplified. An acoustic guitar (with fresh strings) can be extremely articulate, but you have to put in more energy to produce these sounds.

I certainly see the amplifier as part of the instrument with the electrical guitar, and that alone makes a ton of difference between the two.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#208
As with programming, I think you really need a certain drive. My little sister was supported to learn an instrument, but I took it and taught it myself, mostly to impress my family. Then on I played in bands, and I am still a musician. And my sister even though she was forced to do lessons doesn't play at all. One of my best friends started guitar, but then left it, because it is just so much work. I think the drive, and the need for showmanship are so important.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#209

My mom made me and both of my brothers take 9 years of piano lessons. Today, not one of us plays - I don't think any of us even has a keyboard in our houses. The reason for this is simply that we were never allowed to play the kind of music we liked . Which was, of course, rock. Or blues, or country. Or, really, anything with a beat. Nope; it was all classical all the time. And piano lessons were the only time we wer…

It is interesting how people have similar experiences, but different outcomes. I have a brother who owns about 12 different guitars, a keyboard, and other instruments. He spends a ton of time making his own music and putting it on Spotify. But he will tell you that the most important thing in his musical career was learning to play classical music on the piano as a child because it taught him music theory and techniq…

I don't think it's uncommon to have this experience around forced classical music lessons. I did a really serious conservatory prep program as a child, "strongly encouraged" by my parents. This included formal theory classes, lessons, seminars, competitions, and a lot of recitals.

That environment was horribly discouraging and, in retrospect, weirdly competitive. I dropped the piano for 5 years almost completely. Still, like a lot of my friends from that program, I came back to piano as a hobby, and I really appreciate the education I got.

I also think it made me a better person in a lot of ways.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#210

My mom made me and both of my brothers take 9 years of piano lessons. Today, not one of us plays - I don't think any of us even has a keyboard in our houses. The reason for this is simply that we were never allowed to play the kind of music we liked . Which was, of course, rock. Or blues, or country. Or, really, anything with a beat. Nope; it was all classical all the time. And piano lessons were the only time we wer…

Yup, same with sports. "You're gonna thank me later" they said. "You're gonna understand when you grow up" they said. NOPE

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