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Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

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Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#191

Post by ajmurmann »

shhdhsheh wrote: post #170
WA wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the conclusion. Why are you glad that your parents forced you for 6 years, if this had basically nothing to do with your later-found joy for music? Couldn’t the same invitation have happened if you just tried piano for a couple months and remembered your one jazz tune?

Is that really so far fetched? I would love to have my parents Force that on me. Now I'm here, would like to learn and play music but I don't have much time and music feels like a steep mountain to even start.

Do it! I started learning cello during the pandemic despite not playing any other instrument. While I'm probably still worse than children with the same time of practice, it's been fun and really rewarding. I assume it's even more rewarding with a simpler instrument.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#192

Post by jimhefferon »

I'm a math prof, who took up cello in middle age. I'm struck by the parallels between music and math education. Take the comments here and change a few words to math and this is a typical list of posts in response to a HN math education piece (at least, a recent one).

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#193

Post by taylorius »

I've played guitar and piano for 35 years, primarily improvisational styles (blues / jazz). I had a year of classical training, but gave it up - and only returned to music several years later.

In my view, music is whatever you want it to be - you play what you want, and if it appeals to people, they will listen. Of course there's knowledge to be passed on (harmony, scales, patterns of rhythm) - but that's all it is - knowledge, which might help a player to better express what they want. A lot of music education treats these concepts as holy writ, which they are most definitely not.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#194

Post by julian_t »

Hayvok wrote: post #136
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #96

My mom made me and both of my brothers take 9 years of piano lessons. Today, not one of us plays - I don't think any of us even has a keyboard in our houses. The reason for this is simply that we were never allowed to play the kind of music we liked . Which was, of course, rock. Or blues, or country. Or, really, anything with a beat. Nope; it was all classical all the time. And piano lessons were the only time we wer…

Same story here with piano lessons - I wanted to write my own music! I would come up with interesting sounds when practicing, and wanted to learn how to develop those further. Nope! Class time rolled around and it was forty five minutes of posture posture posture and finger movements. Mrs. Bell didn’t care about the interesting music I had created, she just wanted me to tick off silly boxes and follow “the plan”. I’v…

Same for me - 8 years of piano with regular exams, gave it up in my teens because I didn't want to play just classical stuff, and all that practicing was just plain boring. Haven't touched a keyboard since (and have carefully forgotten all that music theory).

I did pick up an old classical guitar at a girlfriend's house and started on Simon and Garfunkel and Beatles, and have been playing guitar (and bass, mandolin, slide guitar and lap steel) for the past 45 years, so the music was there!

Having brought up 3 kids, it is sometimes hard to know when to encourage them to push through on something and when to let it die.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#195

Post by 082349872349872 »

bluGill wrote: post #105
winternett wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hated to sound so grim... I've had some great experiences and I still do, nothing beats playing your music for crowds of people... The money is the problem. If you as a musician don't make it, there are others making it off of you. Scams are reampant. I just got an email from a fake Instagram account posing as a real journalist asking me for money for a feature in a big magazine... To tell you the truth it's…

Music is a great hobby and a terrible career. I love playing mandolin, and i'm taking up fiddle now. Someday I hope to learn piano. It's is all in good fun. My day job is programming. I'm lucky that I enjoy it as well, but there is only so much time I can write code in a day, and that is less than 8 hours (i'm glad for meetings for this reason, they prevent burn out) I get paid well for it.

  And bluGill doesn't mind, if he doesn't make the scene.
  He's got a daytime job, he's doing alright.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#196

Post by CPLX »

thewebcount wrote: post #149
CPLX wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also you have to play with other people. I'm a lifelong musician and former professional musician, and I was always in bands, both school and rock bands with friends, right from when I started playing. I think that's just crucial, I never would have stuck with it just sweating it out in the basement. You aren't a musician if you aren't playing with other people and in front of audiences.

> You aren't a musician if you aren't playing with other people and in front of audiences. That’s a terrible attitude. There are plenty of, for example, solo piano players who love playing, but aren’t interested in either being in a band or being a celebrity playing for other people. They are every bit a musician as you are.

I didn’t say they had to be a celebrity. But to be a musician you have to actually produce music, its among the performing arts.

Solo piano players have recitals, or make and share recordings of themselves, or do things that aren’t solo too. I stand by the idea that musicianship is a thing that involves other people, at least in some manner or another.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#197

Post by compiler-guy »

CPLX wrote: post #39
ehaskins wrote: post #14

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

Also you have to play with other people. I'm a lifelong musician and former professional musician, and I was always in bands, both school and rock bands with friends, right from when I started playing. I think that's just crucial, I never would have stuck with it just sweating it out in the basement. You aren't a musician if you aren't playing with other people and in front of audiences.

Good to know I’m not a musician even though I play two different instruments 3-4 hours a week each.

I hate playing with others and stick with jam tracks for accompaniment. I never play in front of others either. Super awkward.

I do occasionally put a recording on YouTube, but the listens are never more than a dozen per year, and I don’t promote it ever. Not sure how I get the listens that I do get.

Not sure what it is I’m doing, but apparently it’s not making music. I do love what I do, and find the craftsmanship and technique as pleasurable as any video game.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#198

Post by shhdhsheh »

ajmurmann wrote: post #191
shhdhsheh wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really so far fetched? I would love to have my parents Force that on me. Now I'm here, would like to learn and play music but I don't have much time and music feels like a steep mountain to even start.

Do it! I started learning cello during the pandemic despite not playing any other instrument. While I'm probably still worse than children with the same time of practice, it's been fun and really rewarding. I assume it's even more rewarding with a simpler instrument.

Unfortunately I haven't found a way yet to start and stick at it.

The guitar is in the basement.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#199

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

tinco wrote: post #186
midoridensha wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric and acoustic guitars are really two very different instruments; a bit like comparing trombones with trumpets. The way you hold and play the basic notes is fairly similar, but the techniques are very different for electric because of the amplification and distortion, and of course the sound is extremely different.

No way, I just googled trumpet and trombone, and those are different instruments. Electric guitar and classical guitar are just different flavors of the same instrument. Most guitarists play both, if they've ever touched a classical guitar. Playing electric is both easier and less loud, if you don't plug in the amplifier, so they're a lot more suitable for kids than classical guitars. The association that parents hav…

Electric guitar is all about bending, rhythm, and processed guitar tone. Classical guitar is all about picking tone, speed, and fine variations of touch. (And intonation for the very best players.)

The fret board isn't the same width.

The notes are in the same places, but that's about it for similarity.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#200

Post by beardedetim »

dukky wrote: post #184
midoridensha wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric and acoustic guitars are really two very different instruments; a bit like comparing trombones with trumpets. The way you hold and play the basic notes is fairly similar, but the techniques are very different for electric because of the amplification and distortion, and of course the sound is extremely different.

I'd agree with this distinction between classical (nylon stringed acoustic) and electric guitar, but steel stringed acoustic plays very similar to electric. I agree that people tend to play different things on them but if you're playing both with a pick you're doing the same techniques on both.

The two are so similar, bands do acoustic sets all the time! I learned to play a lot of Nirvana via their MTV or VH1 or whatever those acoustic concerts were hosted on since I only had a Goya acoustic
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