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Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

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Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#121

Post by Ksienrzycowy »

cm2187 wrote: post #65

Has anyone ever used the cross platform capability of java? Java is cross platform in the way c is cross platform, you can compile to many target platforms. But aren't pretty much all java applications intended to run on one specific platform only? Developers like the idea of cross platform but they pretty much never use it. I think javascript is the only language that is truly used in a cross platform way.

All of my Java backend applications can run seamlessly on Windows and Linux. My small desktop apps also run on Linux and Windows just the same. (with small exceptions)

I can reuse my Java code on Android, but since approach to UX on mobile is completely different, the UI front needs to be separate anyway. But I once wrote a game with LibGDX that essentially had the same core codebase.

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#122

Post by askvictor »

cm2187 wrote: post #65

Has anyone ever used the cross platform capability of java? Java is cross platform in the way c is cross platform, you can compile to many target platforms. But aren't pretty much all java applications intended to run on one specific platform only? Developers like the idea of cross platform but they pretty much never use it. I think javascript is the only language that is truly used in a cross platform way.

C is not cross-platform; you need to compile for each target platform. Java compiles to byte-code which runs on a Java VM, of which there is an implementation on different platforms; you only compile your program once and it will run anywhere there is a JVM. For console/server/webapps applications, this is pretty easy, but for GUI applications it's a bit trickier as each OS has a different look, which is more difficult to abstract. So some applications might have the core running in Java, and a native UI wrapper that provides a native look and feel. But they can be completely Java based (and it's gotten a lot better at dealing with multiple GUI system over time).

While they run on a different VM (Dalvik), Android programs are (mostly) written in Java, and provide a cross-platform function - namely different CPUs (Android can come in ARM, ARM64, x86, x64, MIPS), and all run the same binary (except if there's native extensions... which negates all of that)

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#123

Post by mtrower »

return_to_monke wrote: post #104
bitcharmer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It allows you to make cool web pages, and that is a very attractive thing for people This is the most misinformed take on what Java is used for I have seen on HN. Today Java is used by FAANG and other tech shops. It's employed in the enterprise, science and finance. What it is almost never used for is creating "cool web pages"

I was also puzzled by this one. Does he mean Java applets maybe?

Yes, they were a really big deal at the time, before security concerns came along and sunk them.

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#124

Post by Beltalowda »

hnlmorg wrote: post #98
black_puppydog wrote: post #69

I loved this part. It's not new but nicely put: > As you and know very well, this sort of widespread interest can become a self fullfilling phenomenon, because programmer attention creates programs. Some of these will be successful and that only fuels more participation in the phenomenon. I hope this is what's happening with Rust. :) I also thought this paragraph just afterwards had an interesting point: > In the lim…

Internet Explorer dominated for years. Microsoft killed Netscape not the other way around. Mozilla helped with the downfall of IE but it was really Google that put the final nail in the coffin. As for backend, Microsoft had some systems running IIS and Apache can run on Windows Server too, but UNIX and Linux was always the dominant platform for web hosting. Java didn’t change anything there. Javas impact on Windows c…

> which Java engine you wanted your browser to use and Microsoft Java (or whatever it was called)

It was called JScript. It was released after JavaScript.

I am a peaceful man; never been in a fight with anybody, and oppose the death penalty. The exception is that I think all the people responsible for this clusterfuck of names should be shot.

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#125

Post by snickerbockers »

eddsh1994 wrote: post #18

> Virtual worlds could be such a thing Haha, Metaverse talk while Zuckerberg was in preschool

I hate how "metaverse" became such a mainstream word in the last couple of years but 99% of the population has never even heard of Snow Crash, which originated the term.

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#126

Post by efficax »

ryanmccullagh wrote: post #24

Oracle had already acquired Sun by the time I was in the technology industry. The respondent states that Sun is so set on giving things away. Can someone comment on the culture of Sun at that time? Sun seems to have left a legacy in the open source community. What was the business logic on giving away the software for free? I know it's very common today, but Sun may have been a leader in open source. Any books recomm…

JDK has always been free, microsoft would have charged a hefty license fee for the equivalent

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#127

Post by Beltalowda »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #114
jbverschoor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a tombstone of Gates during hackers in progress (hip97) iirc. Shows you how much he and windows was loved. Today’s microsoft is forced to play nice.

If Microsoft hadn't existed, everyone would be bitching just the same about whichever tech titan would have formed in their absence and erecting tombstones of their founders. It's not as if any of the other wannabes jockeying for power in that era would have had any hesitation in using their dominance anti-competitively either if they had gotten it. Even a certain scrappy don't-be-evil business that hackers were chee…

The question is whether an omnidominant platform like Microsoft's would have arisen in the first place. While the current Android/Apple situation isn't ideal, it's certainly better than only one of the two. I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that a "Microsoft-esque" monopoly would have happened.

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#129

Post by un_ess »

Beltalowda wrote: post #124
hnlmorg wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet Explorer dominated for years. Microsoft killed Netscape not the other way around. Mozilla helped with the downfall of IE but it was really Google that put the final nail in the coffin. As for backend, Microsoft had some systems running IIS and Apache can run on Windows Server too, but UNIX and Linux was always the dominant platform for web hosting. Java didn’t change anything there. Javas impact on Windows c…

> which Java engine you wanted your browser to use and Microsoft Java (or whatever it was called) It was called JScript. It was released after JavaScript. I am a peaceful man; never been in a fight with anybody, and oppose the death penalty. The exception is that I think all the people responsible for this clusterfuck of names should be shot.

jscript was JavaScript engine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript

J++ was a 'clone' of Java https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B . Sun sued Microsoft, https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/sun-microsoft-settle...

and that's how .Net was born ( with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J_Sharp to ensure transition)

Re: Bill Gates: I'm literally losing sleep over Java (1996)

#130

Post by LAC-Tech »

hnlmorg wrote: post #98
black_puppydog wrote: post #69

I loved this part. It's not new but nicely put: > As you and know very well, this sort of widespread interest can become a self fullfilling phenomenon, because programmer attention creates programs. Some of these will be successful and that only fuels more participation in the phenomenon. I hope this is what's happening with Rust. :) I also thought this paragraph just afterwards had an interesting point: > In the lim…

Internet Explorer dominated for years. Microsoft killed Netscape not the other way around. Mozilla helped with the downfall of IE but it was really Google that put the final nail in the coffin. As for backend, Microsoft had some systems running IIS and Apache can run on Windows Server too, but UNIX and Linux was always the dominant platform for web hosting. Java didn’t change anything there. Javas impact on Windows c…

Internet Explorer dominated for years. Microsoft killed Netscape not the other way around.

Did they? I can remember switching from IE to netscape about 2 years before it died, and then going into whatever the precursor to FF was called.

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