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Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

thewalrus.ca

141–150 of 260 posts

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#141

Don't you think most kids would also choose to quit maths or history or any other boring subject at school too? This article skirts around the fact that I think is the reason kids quit 90+% of the time: the kids just don't want to do it but their parents are forcing them. How many young kids actually, genuinely want to play a violin/flute/clarinet? I'd wager very, very few. I don't think it is the teaching method at…

It's not a black and white thing. They are ways to make learning maths or even the oboe a little less boring. Enough so that kids don't get outright repulsed. But that requires a particular charismatic type of teacher that are probably rare (and very pricey).

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#144
There's an underappreciated part of music making that I rarely see represented in music curriculum unless you're in an actual music school: Playing with other people.

I don't mean playing together as an ensemble where the music is already written - though that is important. I mean PLAYING and improvising. Exploring. Simply having fun. Developing your ear, not only for your instrument, but how to listen and react to your collaborators. Making mistakes. Going off-road and being wildly experimental. That's such an important component of what makes music wonderful. Even if you don't have an audience to perform to, and even if you and your friends are objectively terrible it is FUN to express yourself and to synchronize with your friends and have a laugh when you do something satisfying.

As you all mature you become tuned-in to your band. You work as a unit. You surprise each other. You keep each other fresh. You learn to listen deeper and deeper. You discover ways to interpret the same composition several different ways. It becomes a playground.

Perhaps most importantly, there are ZERO RULES. Nobody dies if you play the wrong chord. So you go big. You learn to take risks and occasionally you surprise yourself with what's possible. Music (and perhaps art and creativity in general) demonstrate that so much in life is malleable. That things don't have to be a certain way. That most of it is open to negotiation.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#145

As someone who runs a music label, ans has been doing this since 1999, it's not worth it to invest heavily into music. The people that make money in the industry, aren't the people that play the instruments. It's a long gone dream of just making music that has turned into payola, social media corruption, fake audiences, and negative things like drug abuse, lip syncing, fraud, suicide and ghost writers. Don't wish it…

> The people that make money in the industry, aren't the people that play the instruments.

I've got to say I'm legitimately shocked that anyone still thinks this. I can absolutely state 100% of my friends who play instruments don't do it for the money. Granted none of them are signed, but the point of music is not to get signed.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also tends to be my view because improvisation is what I enjoy doing musically the most, but my daughter (12 yo) takes piano lessons which are quite typical in their structure (Conservatory) and has no interest in improvisation, and in fact, has resisted my attempts to get her to try it. She's obsessed with classical music and practices all the time with no prompting (and is now able to play quite beautifully),…

I disagree with you, and I think that if your daughter has found something she likes doing with the instrument, you should encourage that, even if it's not what you wanted or expected. As a child who loved classical music, I hated getting comments from my relatives that I should play them some rock or jazz. I just wanted to do my own thing. Honestly, it's also a very different style of playing - I later learned some…

I think you misread the parent post. They said that they stopped trying to encourage their daughter to improvise, because she took naturally to classical music and doesn't seem to care about improvisation.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#147

My mom made me and both of my brothers take 9 years of piano lessons. Today, not one of us plays - I don't think any of us even has a keyboard in our houses. The reason for this is simply that we were never allowed to play the kind of music we liked . Which was, of course, rock. Or blues, or country. Or, really, anything with a beat. Nope; it was all classical all the time. And piano lessons were the only time we wer…

I was put on more or less the same kind of lesson program for much of the same reasons - my mom wanted the social kudos attached with kids performing at piano recitals, which is something that myself and my siblings had nothing but scorn for.

Same net result as yourself, none of us continued with our music studies once we were old enough to make our own decisions. In fact, a lot of the social climbing associated with how it all started is something we've rebelled against the most.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#148

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

Long quote, but very relevant:

"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”

― Ira Glass

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#149
post #39

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

Also you have to play with other people. I'm a lifelong musician and former professional musician, and I was always in bands, both school and rock bands with friends, right from when I started playing. I think that's just crucial, I never would have stuck with it just sweating it out in the basement. You aren't a musician if you aren't playing with other people and in front of audiences.

> You aren't a musician if you aren't playing with other people and in front of audiences.

That’s a terrible attitude. There are plenty of, for example, solo piano players who love playing, but aren’t interested in either being in a band or being a celebrity playing for other people. They are every bit a musician as you are.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#150
> Despite his skill, he turned away from the environment he associated with music, an environment he found distasteful and anti­thetical to his being.

This seems to apply in other fields as well by the way; the correspondence to "the YOLO guy" for example is striking.

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