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‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#811

Post by naasking »

MajimasEyepatch wrote: post #333
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #291

[flagged]

This is a ridiculous comment. Statistically, there is no weight loss strategy that has been found to work long term at the population level except for bariatric surgery (and now, apparently, these drugs, but we'll see how things look in a few years). Sure, one individual person can pull it off with enough willpower and support and luck. But at a population level, we know definitively that "grind it out with exercise,…

> But at a population level, we know definitively that "grind it out with exercise, nutrition, and therapy" is not an effective public health strategy.

I'm pretty sure most people skip the therapy. Maybe that's the problem. Changing your relationship with your lifestyle and your food involves a commitment to changing yourself.

Were I in that position, I'd be more inclined to try psychedelics to change how I think than I would new drugs that mess with metabolism.

Another tack we could take is to change the available food options and tax the hell out of problematic foods and heavily subsidize healthier foods. That's a population-level policy that will almost certainly have long term population level effects.

> If these drugs continue to prove safe

That's just it, long-term effects aren't known.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#812

Post by Auracle »

rootusrootus wrote: post #537
beloch wrote: post #316

Thought experiment: A drug* that reduces people's weight and massively boosts physical fitness with no negative side effects is discovered. The discoverer of that drug declines to patent it, making it a cheap generic available everywhere. What would your reaction be? Take a moment to consider what your reaction is before continuing. ... The comments I'm reading here are diverse and fascinating. Weight loss, diet, and…

> discipline and hard work (or genetic luck) Let me tell you, the number of thin people I've met who got there through discipline and hard work is vanishingly small compared to those genetically blessed. This is probably why it's such an appealing delusion -- who doesn't want the world to think they're disciplined and hardworking, instead of just lucky?

How do you know they got it through being "genetically blessed" and not just...putting the fork down? In my experience a lot of skinny people don't outwardly signal that they're "dieting" because they're literally always dieting.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#813

Post by pfooti »

bioemerl wrote: post #182

> In the past, scientists and the public often thought that those with obesity simply lacked the willpower to lose weight. But evidence is growing that most people’s bodies have a natural size that can be hard to change. In the context where we have gone from obesity rates of 13 percent to 40, to suggest that people have a natural weight and that's the cause of this seems absurd to me.

The threshold for "obese" and all such labels has changed over the years, in such a way that makes it seem like people are fatter, when in fact the labels have changed.

Some history. https://elemental.medium.com/the-bizarre-and-racist-history-...

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#814

Post by at-w »

runnerup wrote: post #768
jostmey wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only proven way to live longer and reduce your risk of essentially every disease is to reduce caloric intake. So unless you are underweight, the benefits could outweigh any side effects. I am not advocating that everyone take these drugs--but I understand why someone might suggest it

The parent post said: > everyone, even the skinny folks, should be on GLP1 drugs But as a skinny person, I can already easily reduce caloric intake as much as I want to. My body is "blessed" with weak food cravings and solid blood glucose levels while fasting. So while I do recommend these drugs to people who need them, I don't think they'd help me at all more than merely deciding one day to monitor and control my we…

To be fair our ideas of normal are extremely skewed. If you look at photos from say 1962, you'd consider most people "skinny" (even photos of places like the US). Yet even then, 23% of American adults were obese according to the CDC. Even in 1987, the actor that played Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket gained 75lbs to play a comically obese Marine. Today he looks fitter than most people you'd see everyday.

If you look at the US today, an average of just 1 in 4 people are not medically overweight or obese. What was considered (and is factually) obese, is now considered "chubby" or "curvy" if not normal by most Americans for whom that is normal.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#815

Post by SamPatt »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #801
sdf4j wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you explain skinny smokers then? or skinny drug addicts? This whole "intellectual willpower" thesis is so stupid it's insulting.

Most "skinny" drug users are on drugs that have side effects including weight loss. What's insulting is to take away the accomplishment of the fat folks who got healthy by claiming it was just their genetics that let them stop being fat, but also somehow their genetics that caused them to get fat in the first place?

I'm a former "fat folk" and I tend to agree this is more about willpower than many people are willing to admit.

I'm not insulted by anyone who discounts the effort I put into getting fit though. Weight and genetics and willpower are all confusing concepts and it's understandable to not be willing to attribute it all to willpower.

I will say that it is almost discouragingly hard to maintain this level of discipline for many years though. My body does seem to fight me in ways other healthy weight people don't seem to deal with. So while it does come down to my willpower to stay the course, I also admit that if I were to have an unexpected life event that caused me to fall out of my routine it might lead to weight gain again.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#816

Post by wnolens »

tdeck wrote: post #662
scarmig wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s so hard to eat healthy, I honestly cannot fathom how people do it. When I started taking semaglutide, I finally understood it. I'd eat a salad... and be full and more than satisfied! I'd look at a muffin right after lunch, and go "eh, better things to do with my time" instead of immediately having an overriding desire to eat eat eat. Before, I could eat half a pizza and still be hungry (way out of what my body…

> Too many people are convinced that everyone has the same subjective experiences of hunger and craving, but it's simply not the case. Some people implicitly hold this idea because it's a convenient ideology that allows people to morally congratulate themselves for having a functioning satiety circuit. As someone who's always been thin and doesn't have a strong appetite, I couldn't agree more. I'm just enough outside…

I'm in a similar boat as you. COMPLETE opposite experience as other folks, to the point of pathology. I could not overeat to save my life. I cannot lift weights and expect any growth due to lack of caloric intake. When I try to exceed 2k calories in a day, I find myself so full I need to lie down and groan for an hour until things move and digest. Force any more down and I'll vomit. I cannot concentrate with a meal in my stomach, so I wake at 9, eat ~500cal at 1pm, and leave the rest til I'm done work at 8.

Sometimes I lose 15lbs when having a bout of constipation due to goddamn IBS.

Every person in my life, friend or foe or family or partner finds it clever and completely acceptable to tell me I'm "too skinny and need to eat more".

Others without my experience just don't get it. Glad these overweight folks have a tool to help them.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#817

Post by naasking »

SamPatt wrote: post #805
fortran77 wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Counting calories correctly is really hard. I've lost 90 lbs, achieved a healthy body weight, and kept it off for years, but I keep trying to lose just 10 more pounds. I only make progress when I'm religious about calorie counting, including weighing every meal or needing to do precise food prep beforehand. That's such a pain in the ass that I inevitably fail and keep returning to my body's new average weight. I thin…

Strange, I've found doing meal prep one day a week that you partition into fixed quantities for each day to be way easier than making a meal every day. I'm surprised you found it such a pain in the ass. It's a pain to setup and do the calculations that first time, but once you do it's fairly easy to maintain the routine.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#818

Post by mrmckizzle »

tyleo wrote: post #569
0xB31B1B wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating food and drinking alcohol is a core part of most social activities. When you're losing weight, you can't really fuck up, you really need to stick to your diet. I found it difficult to maintain my diet in social settings (going to a friends party, eating at a restaurant with friends, going to a bar to celebrate something, etc) so I just stopped doing all of those things for 8 months. Like, if you're trying to q…

Thanks for the answer. In my own experience I went from eating out every day at work to packing a lunch and eating in the cafeteria. It didn’t mean less socialization at lunch but I did start eating with different people and I realize that is hard or not even an option for some. I set a rule for myself to only eat out once a week and that did the trick. I also stopped going to a weekly bar event with friends and hone…

It probably depends where you live and your social groups. In MT it seems that there are two main groups of people. Those who are into outdoor activities (healthier lifestyle) and your other group which is more adverse to the outdoors and prefer to socialize in Bars or at events. If you fall into the latter, it can be socially isolating if you want to lose weight or maintain a healthy eating habit.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#819

Post by naasking »

danielvaughn wrote: post #641
windpower wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also on one of these drugs (Tirzepatide) and have been for a few months. The first time I remember knowing I was fat was when a babysitter made fun of me for it at age 6. I've been fat ever since and I'm in my late 30s now. I've lost significant amounts of weight (60+ pounds) three times in my adult life, through simple calorie restriction (intermittent fasting, including before I'd ever heard the term). Every ti…

I was just saying the exact same thing to my wife yesterday. We’re both trying to lose weight, for the millionth time in the 20 years we’ve been together. Exasperated, I just said “I don’t get it. I was an artist who had no technical background, and was able to teach myself computer science and now I’m a highly successful engineer. I did that. And yet I can’t lose 10 pounds to save my life.” It’s so hard to eat healt…

> It’s so hard to eat healthy, I honestly cannot fathom how people do it.

There are some simple tricks you can try if you're currently maintaining a stable weight. The simplest is to get slightly smaller plates. Your brain will naturally try to visually match what your old portions looked like on the old plates, but now the plates are smaller so you're eating a bit less.

No other change in behaviour is needed to see some benefits, but of course going for a half hour walk after dinner and shifting more of the food you put on that plate towards greens also helps.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#820

Post by adamrezich »

pmarreck wrote: post #794
adamrezich wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's always really strange to me whenever someone enthusiastically advocates that others use experimental drugs whose long-term side effects have not yet been discovered. if you want to try em yourself then go for it I guess, but I'm good thanks. it's interesting to take a step back and realize just how much pharmaceutical corporations have got average people to think it's perfectly normal to try putting random chemi…

> have got average people to think it's perfectly normal to try putting random chemical compositions into their bodies and see what happens This smells like you devoured some anti-vaxxer BS, btw. But for the record, these things go through a ton of testing and clinical trials. The reason science types are excited is BECAUSE this class of drug looks safe AND effective... based on the data. (And I'm also down 35+ lbs o…

if expressing any less-than-positive opinions about pharmaceutical corporations is enough for you to make an immediate learned mental association with a popular dismissive political buzzword label, then I suggest asking yourself why exactly this is the first thing that came to mind, and what that might mean from a marketing perspective.

I was prescribed 20mg daily of time-release amphetamines when I was 13, and that was 18 years ago. I have consumed somewhere in the range of 1300 grams of amphetamines in this time period. I have a dependency on it and I hate it. whose idea was it to give a 13-year-old amphetamines just because he spent too much time thinking about computers instead of focusing on middle school classwork. and a good mix of various antidepressants, none of which worked and all of which had unpleasant side effects.

the medical system in this country, which its pharmaceutical corporations are fully complicit in, is far from pure and righteous and unquestionably benevolent. if marketing (or propaganda, depending on how you want to look at it) has conditioned you to believe otherwise, then I don't know what else I can tell you.

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