‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#681

Post by vouaobrasil » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:47 AM UTC

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #670

windpower wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also on one of these drugs (Tirzepatide) and have been for a few months. The first time I remember knowing I was fat was when a babysitter made fun of me for it at age 6. I've been fat ever since and I'm in my late 30s now. I've lost significant amounts of weight (60+ pounds) three times in my adult life, through simple calorie restriction (intermittent fasting, including before I'd ever heard the term). Every ti…

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> What people who aren't fat do is intellectually recognize that "I could eat forever" feeling, and don't fall for it. That's where the willpower comes into play.

I don't think that is quite right, at least from personal experience. I have a good weight and I feel it's almost impossible for me to gain weight. And personally, I don't really recognize the "I can eat forever" feeling.

I love food, don't get me wrong, but I eat some sort of meal and then once I feel it's enough so that I no longer feel ravenous, I just stop and go back to doing something else. Sometimes I'm even concentrating so hard on some other activity that I forget about eating.

For me, it's definitely not willpower. In fact, once I tried to gain weight (more muscle mass) by going to the gym and counting calories, eating a minimum amount every day over what I usually ate. What happened was that after a short amount of time, there came a day where I just didn't feel like eating.

In short, although I do believe willpower can help you lose weight, I sincerely doubt a lack of it is the only thing that causes people to be fat. I honestly think that people must have a different metabolism and/or a different desire to eat, because I find it very hard to ingest enough calories myself no matter how hard I try. My body just stops me from eating very soon, even though I know I theoretically could eat more.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#682

Post by SpeedilyDamage » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:48 AM UTC

HealthNeed wrote: post #677

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I think you are missing the point. People are not skinny because they "intellectually" know something. Nor are people fat because they are stupid, sometimes sure, but the societal trend towards obesity is not caused by ignorance. Read the article.

People absolutely are skinny because they intellectually know something, but the word “intellectually” doesn’t mean smart/stupid, it means “apply critical thinking to a situation” as opposed to allowing your animal brain to keep control.

To put it another way, system 1 will eat until its full, system 2 knows what a calorie is, and at least vaguely understands how many calories are in what you just ate against what you need to survive.

Skinny people are not smarter, they’ve either never had an impulse to eat more in the first place, or are able to react to the impulse with the part of the brain that reasons.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#683

Post by bt4u » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:49 AM UTC

Jagerbizzle wrote: post #612

gardenhedge wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A marvel movie body is made through injecting steorids.. not living healthily.

Natural bodybuilding is a thing. It does require eating a ton of protein though, so whether or not it's "living healthily" depends on what you consider a normal amount of poultry and fish a person should be eating on a daily basis.

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Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#684

Post by cmrdporcupine » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:50 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #58

VikingCoder wrote: post #43

I'm on semaglutide. Was on Saxenda, because I couldn't get access to Wegovy at the lowest dosage. But now I'm on Wegovy, for half a week so far. I was retching horribly one night at 2 am, but didn't throw up. I've felt clammy and dizzy a few times. (Possibly hypoglycemic?) I honestly feel like it's changing how I feel about food. I don't want to eat empty carbs, anywhere near as much. Because I feel like they make me…

> I don't want to eat empty carbs, anywhere near as much. Because I feel like they make me feel sick. I did a keto diet obsessively for a while and I still have a psychological revulsion to drinking coke or eating cake even a year later. Those sorts of things are long term wins.

Wait til someone you love develops anorexia or a similar eating disorder (they may already have and you may not know it), and then you will think of "psychological revulsion to X food" in an entirely different light.

Be careful. You'd be amazed at what harm the brain can do to the body.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#685

Post by hypatiadotca » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:50 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #653

scarmig wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s so hard to eat healthy, I honestly cannot fathom how people do it. When I started taking semaglutide, I finally understood it. I'd eat a salad... and be full and more than satisfied! I'd look at a muffin right after lunch, and go "eh, better things to do with my time" instead of immediately having an overriding desire to eat eat eat. Before, I could eat half a pizza and still be hungry (way out of what my body…

> Too many people are convinced that everyone has the same subjective experiences of hunger and craving, but it's simply not the case. Some people implicitly hold this idea because it's a convenient ideology that allows people to morally congratulate themselves for having a functioning satiety circuit. Where does this line of thinking stop? Is everything pre-determined by genetics? Is everyone who is smarter than me,…

If your eyes got bad, would you get glasses?

My brain doesn't produce the same amount of dopamine as a non-ADHD human's brain. It's morally neutral to fix that with medication, same as it's morally neutral to wear glasses, imo.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#686

Post by refurb » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:54 AM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #622

omniglottal wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP commented on a weight-loss scheme of eating every other day. Given the social attitudes around eating (which I suspect to be the #1 most common social activity), this alone has the obvious potential to eliminate ~%50 of the most likely socializing opportunities.

If you're not eating every other day you can still go to the eating place and sit with folks. Also you can just talk more since they have to eat and you don't. Sounds like MORE socializing.

Why not just order something with no calories. If I go out for a meal and I'm not hungry, I'll get a salad. It's like 50 kcal.

I eat, get a bunch of vitamins, and socialize.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#687

Post by scarmig » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:56 AM UTC

emmelaich wrote: post #665

0xB31B1B wrote: post #21

I’m currently taking one of these drugs and it has been no less than a miracle in my life. I became obese when I was around 5, topping out around a 34 BMI. When I was 20 I lost a substantial amount of weight the old fashioned way (diet and exercise), and within 8 months I was BMI 23. Losing weight was extremely challenging and socially isolating. 7 years later, I had a bad ankle injury and regained weight to about 29…

So it works by reducing hunger? Bit obvious if you eat less than 1kcal per day you will lose weight. The article mentions "along with some lifestyle changes". Is what they mean? Every animal will engorge itself given the chance. All that is happening is the great abundance of cheap food and less activity. Thats it - except maybe for a tiny minority with metabolism / hormone issues.

> Every animal will engorge itself given the chance.

Not every animal. Mice given semaglutide don't gorge when presented with food to feed on freely, to the point where their weight drops >10% compared to control after a month.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#688

Post by komali2 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:56 AM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #622

omniglottal wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP commented on a weight-loss scheme of eating every other day. Given the social attitudes around eating (which I suspect to be the #1 most common social activity), this alone has the obvious potential to eliminate ~%50 of the most likely socializing opportunities.

If you're not eating every other day you can still go to the eating place and sit with folks. Also you can just talk more since they have to eat and you don't. Sounds like MORE socializing.

> If you're not eating every other day you can still go to the eating place and sit with folks.

It sounds like you can't really sympathize because you haven't experienced this, but I can help you empathize if you're interested. Context, I've moved from between 16% and 30% bodyfat several times in the last 15 years, I've struggled with weight my whole life.

For some overweight people, like me, there's a high willpower cost to avoiding food that's present. A strategy for weightloss that's worked for me is to simply remove all snacks from the house, and when I order food, order an appetizer only, or, if I'm with someone, slide half my food onto their plate. If I have to, I'll try to eat half, and then right away ask the waiter to box up the rest or whatever.

Seems silly, right? Why not just take a look at my plate, make a rational evaluation of the calories there, and only eat until I hit within my calorie budget? I'm perfectly capable of making that calculation, I've been counting calories for a decade, I'm pretty darn accurate at this point. So why don't I just do that? Why don't I just work out every day? Why don't I just study my mandarin flashcards every day like I know I need to? Why don't I always put my clothes away as soon as I take them out of my dryer?

I don't have a catchall answer, all I know is that for whatever reason, some or all humans have gaps between their ideal self and their true self, and sometimes you gotta do silly tricks to jump those gaps. A silly trick that works for me is keeping food I shouldn't eat, out of site.

So TLDR when I'm hardcore dieting, going to an eating place with the intention of not eating is an extremely exhausting exercise. There's many opportunities for me to fail there, from when I sit down everyone's looking at the menu (maybe if I just get something small, maybe if I just eat half it's ok) through to when food and drinks come (well I can snack on some of the shared appetizer, that's no big deal). I will quite literally catch my eyes darting from whoever I'm conversing with to a plate of fries again and again. Every single time it happens I have to tell myself "no," with the full list of rational reasons why that "no" is more important than my impulsive desire borne from both hunger and just like, mouth boredom or whatever, to eat the fry.

So knowing that about myself, when I'm hardcore dieting, I just try to avoid setting myself up to fail like that, and thus, it's a socially isolating time. Especially when I lived in the USA and outside of like, rock climbing and motorcycling, there was basically no time people got together that didn't involve food, cause you had to drive or whatever and your hangout time would probably overlap with a meal or two.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#689

Post by stavros » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:56 AM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #647

windpower wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also on one of these drugs (Tirzepatide) and have been for a few months. The first time I remember knowing I was fat was when a babysitter made fun of me for it at age 6. I've been fat ever since and I'm in my late 30s now. I've lost significant amounts of weight (60+ pounds) three times in my adult life, through simple calorie restriction (intermittent fasting, including before I'd ever heard the term). Every ti…

> people that have never actually been fat. "I did it and I lost 15 pounds Also people who have never had an older metabolism. It's different. I was also skinny despite eating a ton and hardly exercising when I was 25. Everyone I know over about 30 can identify when their metabolism suddenly changed. Diet (and to a lesser extent exercise) advice from those who haven't hit their own wall yet is worthless for those who…

I'm 40 and I can't pinpoint when my metabolism changed. I can pinpoint exactly when I moved in with my girlfriend, who cooks delicious food, instead of me ordering a salad a day as my main meal, but my metabolism itself seems to have hardly changed at all.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#690

Post by Sophistifunk » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:59 AM UTC

0xB31B1B wrote: post #21

I’m currently taking one of these drugs and it has been no less than a miracle in my life. I became obese when I was around 5, topping out around a 34 BMI. When I was 20 I lost a substantial amount of weight the old fashioned way (diet and exercise), and within 8 months I was BMI 23. Losing weight was extremely challenging and socially isolating. 7 years later, I had a bad ankle injury and regained weight to about 29…

Fat guy here: these side effects are pretty scary for somebody like me.

3 months of noticeably extra fatigue on top of my current baseline level of exhaustion seems to threaten serious psychological effects.

3 months of brain-fog sounds like a great way to get fired and really fuck up my life.

If my "gastro situation" was noticeably worse than the unpredictable wildy-swinging nightmare it already is, I honestly have no idea how bad the consequences could be for my social life (I would be the flakiest person anybody knows and everybody hates that guy) and ability to make plans / focus long enough to do any work.

For some reason, I don't know why but I've always been this way, there's nothing my body hates and wants to avoid more than throwing up. I dread it. I'm not so sure I enjoy life enough to get through 3 months of nausea.