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NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

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Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#251

Post by TSiege »

yepguy wrote: post #138
brookside wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are they using garbage trucks to plow snow? You are sort of answering your own question here. > snowplows a few days per year that you need them NYC has 6,300 miles miles of streets. Maintaining an entirely separate fleet of plow vehicles large enough to clear the streets quickly would have its own additional costs.

Why do they even have their own fleet of garbage trucks, though? I'm pretty sure the garbage trucks where I live are all privately owned.

First of all we have both. Second of all we are a democracy, and I have never once in my entire life living here heard for anyone call for privatizing the Department of Sanitation. If anything I've heard for calls to take over private sanitation because it way more dangerous to pedestrians and workers

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#252

Post by unregistereddev »

ben7799 wrote: post #219
unregistereddev wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit confused by your numbers, and I suspect we may be mixing multiple units of measure (maybe due to different definitions of gallon?). The 2021 Prius Prime is rated at 53mpg highway. Let's assume that is optimistic and it gets 50mpg. Its fuel tank holds 11.4 gallons, but you don't want to run it dry - let's say 10 gallons are usable. That is a 500-mile (~800km) range after the battery is dead. At 75mph, that r…

The new Prius is probably larger & faster and meets more safety & emissions standards as well. And it will get much better fuel economy than the Civic as soon as traffic gets bad or some city driving is required. Picking highway MPG cherry picks the solution that makes the Hybrid or EV look the worst compared to the traditional ICE car. Not that the Civic is/was a bad car. But all cars are a lot bigger and safer than…

To be fair, the EPA changed the way they calculate mileage ratings in 2006 (affecting window stickers in 2008), so the 2012 Civic is a valid-ish comparison. Also, I chose the most efficient Civic available, which was the hybrid model.

I do wholeheartedly agree with you, though. Even when cherry picking data (highway mpg's, ignoring miles driven in EV mode, choosing the most efficient Civic) and ignoring other factors (larger, safer, lower emissions), the Prius Prime is much more efficient. I think plugin hybrids have their place.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#253

Post by JumpCrisscross »

djtriptych wrote: post #230

This smells to me at least a little bit like union pressure to slow the transition to electric vehicles, which is just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles, putting them all out of work forever.

> union pressure to slow the transition to electric vehicles, which is just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles

Wouldn’t this incentivise earlier fleet turnover to electric? If you’ve just bought an electric fleet, it’s tougher to justify turning it over again for autonomous only.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#254

Post by moffkalast »

iancmceachern wrote: post #245
mabbo wrote: post #104

Why are they using garbage trucks to plow snow? Looks, I get that I'm biased being in Canada, but do they understand that you can buy dedicated vehicles for plowing snow ? They're called... snowplows. They're pretty fantastic. You need garbage trucks every day, all year. Electrify those. You need snowplows on a handful of days per year- and that number is falling thanks to climate change. So buy purpose-built snowplo…

Because it's brilliant. They need to do both: Drive a big truck around the city streets pushing a plow to clear them of snow and ice And Drive a big truck around to collect garbage It's much more efficient to do both at the same time, use the same trucks and skilled labor to run them. It's a classic two birds one stone situation

Actually hold on, we can also put people on these trucks. They can also serve as busses! And wait, attach a trailer and they can also replace semi trucks! Just use one truck to do all city related things, how neat is that? /s

You can just go on, making it less and less efficient each step.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#255

Post by wolverine876 »

jrockway wrote: post #234
wolverine876 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live there? It seems pretty effective IME.

HN's take on NYC is very confusing. Everyone has "obvious" answers to problems that residents don't even consider problematic, and oh by the way, they've never left their town of 600 people.

I remember a debate here where people were claiming how lawless NYC was for allowing people and services to double-park to load/unload. They should park in a loading zone!

You must recognize the general GOP-led campaign that democratic-run places like NYC and CA are nightmares. It was Trump's theme for the 2020 GOP convention, but was overshadowed by Coronavirus. I think it spreads here too. NYC (and CA) need to take it on and remind people what makes them so fantastic.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#256

Post by jvm___ »

mabbo wrote: post #104

Why are they using garbage trucks to plow snow? Looks, I get that I'm biased being in Canada, but do they understand that you can buy dedicated vehicles for plowing snow ? They're called... snowplows. They're pretty fantastic. You need garbage trucks every day, all year. Electrify those. You need snowplows on a handful of days per year- and that number is falling thanks to climate change. So buy purpose-built snowplo…

"that number is falling thanks to climate change"

The weirdness of climate change is that warm air holds more water. So you'll get stronger storms, but some areas will see drought as the atmosphere holds more water and is less likely to give it up as rain/snow.

So, less days on average, but more "once in an X" storms.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#258

Post by jeffbee »

brnt wrote: post #194
ars wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a dedicated garage area in each apartment building NY has a lot of row houses, there's no room for a dedicated garbage area. And the alleys are not wide enough for a garbage truck. Before criticizing a place, at least understand it first.

People in row houses can't walk to the corner of the street? That's how it works in much of the Netherlands, underground bins spread over suburbia, which is like 90% row house. Works fine. I wish we had it here (still need to put my bin/bags out on the designated day).

This is also how they do it in Zürich. You walk your garbage down to the corner. Recycling is the same way. The only thing that gets picked up from houses is paper and cardboard.

In NYC, in very dense areas like of Manhattan, I would expect it would make sense to put a container in the bottom of every building, but in rowhouse areas it is reasonable to expect the occupants to walk down to the corner.

The main thing is like so many other aspects of American life we have no domestic examples of best practices. You have to visit foreign cities and pay attention, or invite their experts to come teach your city.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#259

Post by dripton »

The title of the post is not the same as the title of the article, and it's wrong. The problem isn't that the plows aren't powerful enough; it's that they can only plow for four hours before running out of battery life, and the city wants plows to last twelve hours.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#260

Post by [deleted] »

jwagenet wrote: post #113
jeffbee wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC garbage trucks spend a very long time parked in front of the same building all night, crushing bags full of plastic coffee cups. Ask anyone who has ever tried to sleep in Manhattan. A completely reasonable solution that doesn't require a wholesale change in the way refuse is collected in that city would be to plug the truck in at the building where it is standing. That said, a wholesale change is what they need.

I’m very much interested in this underground system (I don’t know if it is actually implemented): https://www.core77.com/posts/102208/Amsterdams-Smart-System-... It seems to me this sort of trash deposit system would greatly simplify trash collection.

[deleted]
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