‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
251–260 of 1001 posts
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#252Just making sure everybody understands that these drugs are not a solution to the problem. Assuming they work, they just make dieting easy. Look at people who successfully lost weight with diet -- studies show that almost all of them will regain most of their weight within 5 years. And the basic reason is because almost all dieting regimes are shitty, unsustainable way to live and at the end people are left tired of…
>For background, I got obese once and lost weight. Then regained the weight over a decade. Being engineer and problem solver, I vowed to understand the shit out of the problem, loose the weight properly and never regain it back. Which seems to be working. Understanding how to loose weight allowed me to do fantastic things like loose weight at 3 times the rate I did it previously while not feeling hungry or cold. >The…
That said, I red 3-4 dozen books related to weight loss, dieting, habit formation, nutrition, metabolism, diabetes, etc. and countless articles and youtube videos. I made notes of various topics that seemed important and repeated rather frequently and then tried cross-referencing to find which ideas are bunk and which seemed to be well supported.
Starting the process, my goals were to overdetermine the success (ie. do a bunch of things at the same time to ensure success) and to build understanding of topics to the point where I can see how everything fits together and builds confidence I know what I am doing.
Here is an unsorted list of ideas from my memory that I think helped me the most:
* building habits and prepare for what to do after achieving target weight is super important. Weight loss time should be spent learning right habits, building habit chains, discovering/learning healthy dishes, etc.
* managing family is also super important -- if your wife and kids have habits that will collide with your goals they can become worst enemies of the progress achieved,
* become healthy to loose weight rather than loose weight to become healthy -- focus on identifying and fixing health problems and weight loss should more or less come as a consequence
* it is better to do 20% of effort for 80% of benefit in each area rather than try to perfect any one of areas at the cost of others. Don't plan to become an athlete -- it is enough to jog every day for half an hour at comfortable pace. Don't plan for perfect diet -- it is enough to eat "healthy" most of the time. Etc.
* it is better to learn and get to love new, healthy foods and add them to your diet than to try to remove unhealthy things you love. Add new foods/dishes and let them slowly displace bad ones.
* commit to eating a portion of fresh fruit and vegetables, every day, however small. The goal is to build habits so that there is always fresh fruit/veggies at home, so that you automatically search/reach for them at the grocery, so that you have opportunity to test various things and learn new dishes.
* commit to doing any amount of exercise every day. As above, the goal is to build habits, not to become an athlete. The first thing I did was to improve my fitness to the point I could be jogging every day.
* don't start all changes at the same time -- introduce enough delay for each change to get accustomed and to be able to properly focus on that one change
* I found intermittent fasting (4-6 hours eating window, 18-20 hours of fasting) to be probably the single most important thing to improve health and loose weight. It also has benefit of being sustainable and can be additionally combined with calorie restriction and/or keto.
* The best eating window is probably somewhere in the middle of the day. There needs to be enough time before going to bed so that significant portion of fasting happens during sleep (aids recovery) but not too much or it might cause cravings in the evening and make it difficult to adhere.
* I found there are various easy strategies to decrease blood glucose ofter a meal that do not require making huge changes in diet: reduce carb intake during meal, precede carbs with protein/fat, precede carbs with any kind of acid (deactivates enzymes and further reduces blood glucose after a meal).
* A physical exercise like a walk immediately after a meal helps purge blood sugar. While exercise itself does not make the body any less insulin resistant, the effect is as if insulin was more effective.
* I found prolonged fasting and/or keto diet to be good temporary solutions to various problems. After some research I would probably not advise anybody to stay on keto for very long, but spending some time on it gives you superpower of metabolic flexibility, and this ease of being able to hop on and off carbs without ill effects greatly helps with being able to adhere to intermittent/prolonged fasts.
* Carbs make you crave more carbs. If you have problem with hunger while restricting calories, probably the easiest thing you can do is to cut carbs temporarily.
* You probably don't need to get on keto diet to get most of the benefits. MCT oil in morning coffee is enough to generate ketones to stimulate mitochondria to multiply and waste more enrgy.
* The main benefit of keto is that it is darn hard to eat so much fat and cutting carbs suppresses (unhealthy, extra) hunger.
* Running at easy pace (easy = you can still talk easily) for at least 20-30 minutes regularly is ideal to cause mitochondria to multiply. Mitochondria are your friends when loosing weight because this is how your fat gets turned to heat. The more mitochondria you have the easier it is to burn through fat.
* Running at any higher pace or for much longer probably is not advisable. The benefits are incremental but a risk of injury grows significantly making it absolutely not worth it from purely health/weight loss perspective.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#253I think it's awesome that there's a new use for these drugs. However, obesity kills slowly, when it kills. Diabetes and Chronic Kidney Disease kill more quickly if not under control. These drugs keep diabetes under control..and diabetics like my wife are unable to get their meds because people are buying these off the shelf to lose weight. I don't pretend to know the solution, but I do think drug availability should…
> Diabetes and Chronic Kidney Disease kill more quickly if not under control. These drugs keep diabetes under control..and diabetics like my wife are unable to get their meds because people are buying these off the shelf to lose weight. This seems to be a short term problem, and the solution is to simply make more of the drug to match demand.
which unfortunately might not align with the incentives of capitalism.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#254This drug is a net good for society, but we have to fix the root problem. Much of the food we eat is filled with addictive ingredients (sugar, excess fats/oils, etc) that provide little nutritional value but are highly addictive. We’re subsidizing companies that create unhealthy addictive food and subsidizing companies to create drugs to counter the unhealthy addictive food. This is an enormous waste of resources.
Disagree. People genuinely enjoy those foods, because they're tasty and flavorful. And there's zero reason to believe that they're substantially unhealthy unless consumed to the point of sustained caloric surplus. We know this because we have hunter-gatherer populations who consume 50% of their diets in sugar (e.g. the Hadza) or fats (e.g. Intuit), and they have none of the diseases of abundance found in modern popul…
The often-cited studies suggesting Inuit populations were protected from heart disease (Bang and Dyerberg, Feldman et al) comes from limited data which has since been refuted as unreliable and insufficient. The hypotheses they generated don't hold up to the greater balance of data we have, and despite attempts to confirm findings, it simply hasn't happened.
Some studies have suggested to a lesser degree that Inuit populations have marginally smaller rates of coronary artery disease (and other cardiovascular complications), but far more have determined that rates are the same or in some cases/time frames even worse, and risk of stroke has generally trended higher as well. These are all incidents of mortality which have a very, very high correlation with diets which are high in animal fats (as well as salt, regarding strokes).
Here is one very good look at this type of data, and if you look you can also find others: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25064579/
I agree that obesity is a major issue (especially in the case of sugar; it appears less harmful to the body when the sugar is needed and thus used immediately, but harmful when it hangs around and gets turned into fat. This is the main cause of the surge in fatty liver disease, for example), but there is very little and often very poor evidence that obesity is what causes atherosclerosis to occur and become a mortal danger. It seems to be dangerous regardless of weight, and exercise doesn't appear to be wholly protective against it either.
Inuits have actually served as a good example as to why this is true. Even when their obesity rates were lower, their lifestyles required more activity than average, and when studies accounted for BMI, their CAD rates were still on par with western populations according to most data.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#255This drug is a net good for society, but we have to fix the root problem. Much of the food we eat is filled with addictive ingredients (sugar, excess fats/oils, etc) that provide little nutritional value but are highly addictive. We’re subsidizing companies that create unhealthy addictive food and subsidizing companies to create drugs to counter the unhealthy addictive food. This is an enormous waste of resources.
I agree that we have incredible waste on both sides, but there is an even greater culprit: people are lacking true meaning and purpose in their lives and are indulging in these foods to distract themselves from their inner emptiness.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a pretty big leap, what is even "true meaning and purpose"? The culprit is that this food is literally everywhere and billions of dollars are poured into research everywhere to design systems that entice humans to take the convenient way out. If I was to go along with your hypothesis, I would alter it to say that poor nutrition is what contributes to a person's lack of "true meaning and purpose".
> what is even "[lacking] true meaning and purpose"? Perhaps the alienation of workers from the fruits of their labor? It's underrated how depressing it is to not get to eat the sausage you broke your back making.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you have perfect bloodwork I see a lot of health influencers always say whatever diet they are doing is best because nothing bad has shown up on their bloodwork. I am not really sure if bloodwork is all it takes to asses your health.
It's not. The obsession with bloodwork seems to be specific to certain countries (like the US). In most countries, where the medical system is focused less on charging people money and more on evidence based treatments, blood tests are done to find something specific, not to "see how a person is doing", as they care about the effects of overtreatment (unnecessary distress, surgeries, treatments). Many people have thi…
> where the medical system is focused less on charging people money and more on evidence based treatments, blood tests are done to find something specific, not to "see how a person is doing"
I am not sure what insurance you are using in USA but my insurance is super stingy about approving any blood tests that doctor doesn't think are super necessary. All the health influencers i mentioned in earlier comment seem to be paying out of pocket for tests like 'insulin sensitivity' because insurance doesn't pay for those.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, if you have perfect bloodwork and a marvel movie body probably not necessary but otherwise yes. Heart disease, hypertension, high cholesterol, colon cancer rates are rising amongst everyone, even thin people. These drugs positively impact indicators of these things in everyone. Longevity makers have been betting on metformin for a long time and these drugs are like a supercharged metformin
> these drugs are like a supercharged metformin No drinking alcohol, like metformin? If so, I suspect you could get a large fraction of the improvement gained from a population-wide deployment of these drugs, at zero cost , if everyone just stopped drinking alcohol. "But that's unreasonable!" Right, so if that's also required for taking this drug, then....
I take Metformin (not for diabetes, but weight and age) and my doc has never said a word about alcohol. A quick google suggests the possible bad interactions are diabetes related, so probably not applicable.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#259To my mind it's strange that there seems to be a circular argument which starts with sedentary life style and "bad" foods cause obesity so exercise and diet control seems like a fix but that is countered by exercise doesn't help (much) and dieting has only temporary effects.
If my summary is reasonably correct it seems to me what's needed is more understanding of the outcome before using drugs to "fix it".
I wonder if a drug is less likely to be lobbied against than the types of changes such investigations might suggest.
Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers
#260> In the past, scientists and the public often thought that those with obesity simply lacked the willpower to lose weight. But evidence is growing that most people’s bodies have a natural size that can be hard to change. In the context where we have gone from obesity rates of 13 percent to 40, to suggest that people have a natural weight and that's the cause of this seems absurd to me.