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NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

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Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#191

Post by JumpCrisscross »

wolverine876 wrote: post #164

It's discussed elsewhere in the thread, but overehead wires seem appealing: * They solve the power availability problem * They reduce the need for batteries, reducing cost and waste from manufacturing and disposal. * They could be used for electrifying other vehicles like buses * Their ROI seems especially high in dense cities, especially NY: One overhead wire serves all the traffic on the road below. Plus, dense cit…

We’re already electrifying bus depots [1]. Trolley lines may work on major thoroughfares, but they’re a bit of an eye sore.

[1] https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/06/03/the-mtas-new-electric...

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#192

Post by makestuff »

fencepost wrote: post #107
ecshafer wrote: post #70

Battery operated garbage trucks don't sound like a great idea, at least for all day use. With the push for EV I am not sure why we aren't seeing a push for the installation of streetcar power lines, these already exist and are used for busses. If we have a garbage truck that has the battery capacity for say 30 minutes, then it could be on the power line for the majority of the time. This would limit battery waste as…

Garbage trucks are probably one of the best places for it actually, because they stop so frequently. Unfortunately the article is about plow trucks instead which have a very different use case - New York just happens to use the same vehicles for both so they have a smaller fleet that's not as well suited to either task. For garbage trucks you have stop and go movement so EVs eliminate idling. Given the size of the tr…

Seems like plug in hybrid is the best approach with current tech. Battery in the neighborhoods, and gas powered when you are hauling it back to the landfill.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#194

Post by brnt »

ars wrote: post #134
echlebek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that most other major cities have garbage collection figured out in a better way. For instance in my city, garbage is kept in a dedicated garage area in each apartment building, and on a scheduled day, it's picked up either right in the building or in the alley after the caretaker moves the dumpsters there. The fact that this is considered politically untenable in New York is frankly insane, glad I don…

> in a dedicated garage area in each apartment building NY has a lot of row houses, there's no room for a dedicated garbage area. And the alleys are not wide enough for a garbage truck. Before criticizing a place, at least understand it first.

People in row houses can't walk to the corner of the street? That's how it works in much of the Netherlands, underground bins spread over suburbia, which is like 90% row house. Works fine. I wish we had it here (still need to put my bin/bags out on the designated day).

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#195

Post by SoftTalker »

yepguy wrote: post #138
brookside wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are they using garbage trucks to plow snow? You are sort of answering your own question here. > snowplows a few days per year that you need them NYC has 6,300 miles miles of streets. Maintaining an entirely separate fleet of plow vehicles large enough to clear the streets quickly would have its own additional costs.

Why do they even have their own fleet of garbage trucks, though? I'm pretty sure the garbage trucks where I live are all privately owned.

Waste hauling in NYC used to be run by the mob. It still may be to some extent, but that history has yet to be un-f*cked.

They don't even use dumpsters, they just pile bags of trash on the sidewalk. And then wonder why they have a huge rat problem.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#196

Post by wolverine876 »

danielfoster wrote: post #3

Why does critical infrastructure need to be among the first to “go green?”

Who says it does? What does that address?

Improving fleets has large ROI. The benefit is all the emissions from all those vehicles. The cost should be lowered per vehicle due to standardization, and due to professional managers, maintainers, and drivers who can handle much more complexity and deal with novel issues.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#197

Post by wolverine876 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #174
wolverine876 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better for those folks and the budget, both of which will feel the full impact of climate change. (But I don't think a separate fleet is the answer.)

It’s better for the environment to build and maintain a separate fleet of occasionally-used snow plows?

Did you read the second sentence? I mean, I know people don't read entire articles, but two sentences?

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#198

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

comte7092 wrote: post #53
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying this for years. I just don't understand it. A car that can drive ~40 miles on pure electric that has an ICE for longer trips would satisfy the needs of everyone. For like 90+% of people, it would mean never using gas for their commute while also eliminating range anxiety. I'm especially surprised about the lack of plug-in hybrids for semi trucks. I'd think having a little extra electronic torque woul…

I live in an apartment. I drive a full EV and the 200+ miles range allows me to get away with charging at public chargers intermittently rather than having to plug in basically every night. If I had a plug in hybrid, it wouldn’t get plugged in.

If you could charge at home with your own dedicated charger, would you plug in a plug-in hybrid?

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#199

Post by porb121 »

alcover wrote: post #131
rsstack wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC has 30,000 streets and only a handful of days of snow in the year. By having garbage trucks that can deal with a few inches of snow, you avoid the need of buying dozens of dedicated vehicles that will rot 360 days a year.

> only a handful of days of snow in the year I know modern economy has gone full-JIT but I naively wish we could just stop in this case and.. wait. Then this question of truck fleet would be moot.

You're talking about a city of 10+ million people.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#200

Post by JumpCrisscross »

chitowneats wrote: post #114
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard Red Deer, Alberta make that claim.

You don't even hear people from LA or SF boast the way they do in New Yawk.

> don't even hear people from LA or SF boast the way they do in New Yawk

Every borough except Staten Island is larger than San Francisco [1][2]. Manhattan together with Queens or Brooklyn is bigger than LA, the second-largest city in America. (Staten Island is about the size of Raleigh or Atlanta.)

New York solves problems at a scale no other American city comes close to imagining.

[1] https://www.nyc.gov/site/planning/planning-level/nyc-populat...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...

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