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NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

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Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#71

Post by colechristensen »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #65
colechristensen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had a couple of apartments install ev chargers in every parking space in the last few years. That kind of thing is going to get progressively more common.

Why do we need chargers in every parking space? Is every space allotted? In our parking structure (five floors) we have about 50 EVs and only four chargers, there’s always at least one spot available. I guess there’s no real harm in it but seems like a waste of resources.

If everybody has an EV it becomes more of a problem and shuffling your car around to leave space for your neighbors is a time sink.

For a while I commuted 80 miles a day which would have meant daily charges were more or less necessary. Having to take the car out for a walk every night would have been irritating.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#73

Post by pixl97 »

anm89 wrote: post #72
mrmckizzle wrote: post #56

I'm surprised, I thought the electric engines would supply more torque. Thereby making it easier to plow snow.

Peak torque isn't the issue. It's how long the batteries can sustain sufficient torque

Cold weather and battery life are two things that do not get along.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#74

Post by anonu »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #26
legitster wrote: post #11

> “ With current technology, full electrification isn’t possible now for some parts of our fleet, but we are monitoring closely and really hope it will be,” Gragnani said. We are really letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. At this moment in time, Plug-in hybrids are the superior technology for nearly every application. I don't understand why they get so overlooked by consumers and manufacturers alike.

I've been saying this for years. I just don't understand it. A car that can drive ~40 miles on pure electric that has an ICE for longer trips would satisfy the needs of everyone. For like 90+% of people, it would mean never using gas for their commute while also eliminating range anxiety. I'm especially surprised about the lack of plug-in hybrids for semi trucks. I'd think having a little extra electronic torque woul…

I'll play the devil's advocate here: its because hybrids are boring. Specifically, they accelerate slowly. We live in a world of instant gratification (tweets, tiktok, etc..) People want the same with their cars. Which is why TSLA was successful. Personally, when I think TSLA I think of a car that dominates the 0 to 60 charts for a fraction of a cost the ICE cars on the list.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#75

Post by jeffbee »

ecshafer wrote: post #70

Battery operated garbage trucks don't sound like a great idea, at least for all day use. With the push for EV I am not sure why we aren't seeing a push for the installation of streetcar power lines, these already exist and are used for busses. If we have a garbage truck that has the battery capacity for say 30 minutes, then it could be on the power line for the majority of the time. This would limit battery waste as…

NYC garbage trucks spend a very long time parked in front of the same building all night, crushing bags full of plastic coffee cups. Ask anyone who has ever tried to sleep in Manhattan. A completely reasonable solution that doesn't require a wholesale change in the way refuse is collected in that city would be to plug the truck in at the building where it is standing.

That said, a wholesale change is what they need.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#76

Post by asdff »

comte7092 wrote: post #53
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying this for years. I just don't understand it. A car that can drive ~40 miles on pure electric that has an ICE for longer trips would satisfy the needs of everyone. For like 90+% of people, it would mean never using gas for their commute while also eliminating range anxiety. I'm especially surprised about the lack of plug-in hybrids for semi trucks. I'd think having a little extra electronic torque woul…

I live in an apartment. I drive a full EV and the 200+ miles range allows me to get away with charging at public chargers intermittently rather than having to plug in basically every night. If I had a plug in hybrid, it wouldn’t get plugged in.

I think there is a sweet spot for city size and how many people are using EVs for apartment EV users now. Your city needs to be large enough to draw investment for this infrastructure, but it can't be so large that each and every charger in town has someone already parked there, which is what seemingly happens when I see the few dozen chargers installed around my neighborhood.

You also don't want most people to be driving EVs, because then it quickly becomes a situation like bikes are with last mile transport: if everyone used them, they wouldn't work so well, but so long as only a few people are using them it works great for you. If everyone brought a bike on the train we'd have to redesign trains to be far longer and lengthen underground stations to match; right now its fine because its only maybe 2-3 people per train car with a bike in my experience, but if that changes the fixes are expensive.

Likewise with EV chargers, if we see mass adoption, we'd have to foot the bill to turn every basically zero cost spit of pavement people park on into dedicated charging infrastructure. I'm assuming a municipal charger will have to be substantially more rugged and able to handle more abuse than your average home charger installation. Estimates on the internet vary for what a l2 charger costs, lets say its $10000 for one fit for a public parking spot. That would put the cost to convert the 6 million parking spots in Los Angeles at $60 billion. Sure that's probably not sound math, but it doesn't seem cheap, especially factoring in ongoing maintenance and replacement.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#77

Post by chitowneats »

jeffbee wrote: post #75
ecshafer wrote: post #70

Battery operated garbage trucks don't sound like a great idea, at least for all day use. With the push for EV I am not sure why we aren't seeing a push for the installation of streetcar power lines, these already exist and are used for busses. If we have a garbage truck that has the battery capacity for say 30 minutes, then it could be on the power line for the majority of the time. This would limit battery waste as…

NYC garbage trucks spend a very long time parked in front of the same building all night, crushing bags full of plastic coffee cups. Ask anyone who has ever tried to sleep in Manhattan. A completely reasonable solution that doesn't require a wholesale change in the way refuse is collected in that city would be to plug the truck in at the building where it is standing. That said, a wholesale change is what they need.

It never ceases to amaze me that the self styled "Greatest City on Earth" can't come up with a reasonable solution for its garbage.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#79

Post by gopalv »

hef19898 wrote: post #68
i_am_proteus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the headline references "power," the issue is that these electric trucks do not have enough battery capacity to plow snow for a full day before recharging overnight. I have always thought that municipal road services had great potential to be electrified via partial catenary: take power from (and charge batteries) where the roads are electrified, discharge battery where the roads are not electrified.

Stupid question so, why would you use a garbage truck to plow snow? Over here, cities, towns and musipalities use different vehicles for different jobs, suxh as garbage, snow plowing, street cleaning and so on...

> why would you use a garbage truck to plow snow?

They're optimizing for trained drivers who can drive safely in the snow rather than hire two.

For a dangerous job on snowy roads, I think the fewer people employed with better pay is better than more people with lower pay for the same skills.

That said, there are a lot of places which can buy EV garbage trucks before we get to the snow or ice.

Who's not buying them is not as relevant when we're supply capped on the production of decent trucks with batteries in them.

Sure, it affects the total-market calculations & how the development is funded, but might not change how many are sold per-year until the production scales.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#80

Post by jeffbee »

chitowneats wrote: post #77
jeffbee wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC garbage trucks spend a very long time parked in front of the same building all night, crushing bags full of plastic coffee cups. Ask anyone who has ever tried to sleep in Manhattan. A completely reasonable solution that doesn't require a wholesale change in the way refuse is collected in that city would be to plug the truck in at the building where it is standing. That said, a wholesale change is what they need.

It never ceases to amaze me that the self styled "Greatest City on Earth" can't come up with a reasonable solution for its garbage.

They also call it "the city that never sleeps" but they misleadingly omit the reason.
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