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Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

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Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re interested in virtual monitors, and willing to be a bit ahem bleeding edge, try the NReal Air. They’re no replacement for a high quality 34” curved monitor but come kinda close to a nice 25” 1080p monitor IME. They suffer the same issues as other VR solutions (focusing on fine text can be hard, it shakes on your head, etc). But unlike the Quest, you can set it to “Aircast” mode which basically replaces an V…

> They’re no replacement for a high quality 34” curved monitor but come kinda close to a nice 25” 1080p monitor IME. So, this is something I think I'm pretty much missing here. Acceptable 25" 1080p monitors are pretty cheap these days; why would a potential user not just get some of those? VR might or might not be useful for some things (I'm pretty much unconvinced so far) but the "virtual monitor" use case is just b…

I enjoy using my quest pro on the couch or in bed - it is a great way to watch shows on Netflix or play stationary games like Tetris or Cubism. Forget about 25", it is more like a full projector-size movie on my wall!

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#202

A new VR arcade opened up in my area and I visited with my son. They were using HTC Vive headsets, which retail for $1,000+. It’s the first time I really used VR, especially in a couch coop mode setup. The following struck me: (1) There is no killer, must have game for VR. Beat Saber seems to be the most popular and mainstream game but not nearly engaging enough to convince the mass market to buy one or more VR heads…

> They were using HTC Vive headsets, which retail for $1,000+.

Slight nitpick:

Those would be the HTC Vive Pro headsets. The "HTC Vive" came out in 2016 and is a pretty shitty device by today's standards. Also, it retailed for $600.

> We had a 1 hour session with the goggles and I felt quite sea sick during and after gameplay.

This varies from person to person, but most people only get sick when playing games where the real-world movement doesn't match game-world movement. For example, most people can play Beat Saber with no motion sickness problems, but will feel sick almost instantly if they play a racing game or a game that lets you walk by using a controller input.

I've had VR since late 2016 and this still rings true. I can play PokerStars VR for 4+ hours and my only complaint will be the weight of the headset starting to feel overbearing. On the other hand, 2 minutes of Assetto Corsa and I feel like I'm gonna lose my lunch.

> The arcade was expensive. I paid nearly $100 for 1 hour for 2 people in a MCOL area. One of the reasons for the high cost is the arcade required an employee to help us cycle through games and explain gameplay and controls.

Shitty experiences in VR arcades are exacerbated by the fact that they're usually staffed by people that just needed a job, and not VR enthusiasts that care about sharing their excitement for the platform.

(EDIT: Also, as someone else mentioned, having IPD configured properly is crucial. If the staff aren't setting IPD, then it can create headaches and sickness.)

> solve the sea sickness problem

It's a difficult problem to solve because the core issue is the mismatch between movement in the worlds as mentioned above. When your eyes detect movement, but the vestibular system in your inner ear says your not, your monkey brain thinks you ate something poisonous and creates the urge to purge.

A company called Otolith Labs has supposedly created a device that potentially solves the problem (https://otolithlabs.com/vertigo/) by making your vestibular system essentially send static, but they're targeting it to sufferers of vertigo rather than VR players.

> and somehow bring down the cost so two headsets cost about as much as a current generation console.

As others have said, the Meta Quest 2 is $400. And it's PC VR compatible, so if you have a gaming PC, you can use it with that.

> I think it’s also very premature for Meta to go after the business market.

We're still years from business use for VR aside from maybe virtual meetings with avatars. I think the biggest limiter is resolution. Text needs to be decently large to be readable in VR. I have a 1440p monitor that only uses what, 45 degrees of my eyes' FOV? When I think of what I would use VR for, I'm thinking essentially unlimited monitors. I could have several pages of documentation visible at any time.

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#203

A new VR arcade opened up in my area and I visited with my son. They were using HTC Vive headsets, which retail for $1,000+. It’s the first time I really used VR, especially in a couch coop mode setup. The following struck me: (1) There is no killer, must have game for VR. Beat Saber seems to be the most popular and mainstream game but not nearly engaging enough to convince the mass market to buy one or more VR heads…

> and I felt quite sea sick during and after gameplay Part of the problem here is that you tried to push through it. Basically the only way for someone who immediately experiences VR sickness to acclimate is to stop after 5 to 15 minutes, give it a while to go away, return to it, and repeat the cycle a couple of times until it stops completely. If you just try to push through it, that actually makes it worse by aggra…

> Part of the problem here is that you tried to push through it. Basically the only way for someone who immediately experiences VR sickness to acclimate is to stop after 5 to 15 minutes, give it a while to go away, return to it, and repeat the cycle a couple of times until it stops completely.

Considering the context of adoption obstacles, this is worse than VR just making people feel nauseous.

If VR made you feel bad, be sure to both remember how bad it made you feel, and also voluntarily make yourself feel bad again, repeatedly, until (maybe) you won't feel as bad anymore, and then you can have the day-1 experience? Am I tracking this correctly?

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#204
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quest pro

The Quest Pro is "newly" available now (as of late Oct 22 it appears), but the GP said they had tried last year... I guess now that we're in 2023, that could mean some time in 2022, though. I took their comment to mean that they tried out the 2 in anticipation of the release of the Pro, some time in the more distant past.

[deleted]

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I tried the Quest 2 last year mostly out of curiosity for the use cases that Meta themselves would go on to push as the primary focuses of the Quest Pro; VR productivity and virtual monitors. I was left drastically underwhelmed at the time with the resolution and viewing experience from the Quest 2 That's not really a fair assessment of the Quest 2. The Quest 2 is just a budget (400 Euros) gaming console, and for th…

Isn't the Quest 2 the newest headset they offer? Why wouldn't it be fair to try that out and see if it worked, and come to the conclusion that it was underwhelming?

No, the Quest 2 has been out since 2020. The Quest Pro is the latest.

It's unfair because the Quest 2 is mainly a console and was never marketed as a productivity AR device. That's like trying to do your job on a PS5 and claim it's underwhelming, or take your Ferrari off-roading and claim it's underwhelming or trying ML workloads on a Gameboy and claim it's underwhelming.

You are are of course free to try those scenarios and have your opinion that the devices are underwhelming, but nobody can take your point seriously.

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re interested in virtual monitors, and willing to be a bit ahem bleeding edge, try the NReal Air. They’re no replacement for a high quality 34” curved monitor but come kinda close to a nice 25” 1080p monitor IME. They suffer the same issues as other VR solutions (focusing on fine text can be hard, it shakes on your head, etc). But unlike the Quest, you can set it to “Aircast” mode which basically replaces an V…

> They’re no replacement for a high quality 34” curved monitor but come kinda close to a nice 25” 1080p monitor IME. So, this is something I think I'm pretty much missing here. Acceptable 25" 1080p monitors are pretty cheap these days; why would a potential user not just get some of those? VR might or might not be useful for some things (I'm pretty much unconvinced so far) but the "virtual monitor" use case is just b…

> the "virtual monitor" use case is just baffling to me. Actual monitors exist.

First of all, it works with phones, tablets, game consoles, computers, etc. Anything with a display output, so keep that in mind. The use-case isn’t just big desktop computers or even stationary devices.

1. Travel, you can use this on an airplane, which is nice for frequent travels, or if you want to watch a movie on a bigger screen on a plane. It also works in hospital beds, or anywhere else you may want to enjoy a screen but not bring monitors or TVs.

2. Ergonomics, you can lay down and use the glasses a lot easier than a mounted monitor overhead (and a lot less risky). This is useful both for finding ergonomic positions for general life, and also for people who may be disabled, or otherwise have some bodily issue that forces them to lay in bed (in hospital, elderly, etc).

3. It’s simply a bigger screen. It fills your vision, it’s a lot bigger than a 25” display, even if thats roughly the equivalent quality. If you want to Eg. Watch a movie or play games, it’s a better experience. I’ve heard YouTubers like it for their Steam Deck.

4. It’s a lot smaller than a monitor. If you live alone in a studio, this could save you space on having a dedicated desk and desk equipment. You can just work at your table, and it packs away to a backpack when you want to eat.

5. You could even walk and wear it as a HUD - theres a company that makes live translation software for the headset, where you can read “subtitles” of people talking.

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#207
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a VR place near me called Sandbox VR that gets good reviews on Yelp and Google. My family went and it was... okay. We played together for about 45 minutes and we all came away with the same opinion - it was kind of fun, but none of us really wanted to play it again. I don't know which headset they used but I do know we each had an entire PC in a backpack strapped to us.

I did something similar twice and it was meh. Trying real games was mind blowing on the other hand, and buying the go and then the quest was amazing. Different experiences. I’m waiting for the quest 3 personally

I’ve been checking in on VR occasionally over the past 30 years (first VR experience was playing Dactyl Nightmare in 1991 and 1992). VR still feels like it has a long, long way to go.

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#208
post #45

The author persistently conflates AR and MR throughout the posting, evaluating the Quest Pro as an AR device but the concluding at the end it's a terrible "MR" device because it failed at their AR tests. It seems to suggest they really think these terms are synonymous but they aren't. While AR aims to enable display and interaction with the real world but with augmentations, MR aims to bring virtual objects into the…

Is the AR/MR distinction you describe relevant to non-experts (99.999% of the prospective customer base) or just to those who have to implement it?

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#209
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did something similar twice and it was meh. Trying real games was mind blowing on the other hand, and buying the go and then the quest was amazing. Different experiences. I’m waiting for the quest 3 personally

I’ve been checking in on VR occasionally over the past 30 years (first VR experience was playing Dactyl Nightmare in 1991 and 1992). VR still feels like it has a long, long way to go.

Have you tried half life Alyx? I’ve yet to see someone say that after they tried the state of the art experiences.

Also, I hear people say that video games are dumb and pointless sometimes, which reminds me that I might myself not realize when something has incredible potential. I think a lot of people might never see the potential in VR, when it’s already there with millions of people using the Quest already

Re: Meta Quest Pro – Bad AR Passthrough

#210

A new VR arcade opened up in my area and I visited with my son. They were using HTC Vive headsets, which retail for $1,000+. It’s the first time I really used VR, especially in a couch coop mode setup. The following struck me: (1) There is no killer, must have game for VR. Beat Saber seems to be the most popular and mainstream game but not nearly engaging enough to convince the mass market to buy one or more VR heads…

Half Life: Alyx is extremely realistic and immersive and is the game I most commonly use to show people VR for the first time. I have a nice PC gaming rig however - I'm not sure what it's like otherwise.

HL:A is a masterpiece. VR was made for that game, not the other way around. I spent like 3k buying the Index and building a new PC just to play it and it was absolutely worth it.

I've never felt such a consistently visceral adrenaline response from a game before.

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