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NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

gothamist.com

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Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#41

Post by dekhn »

xenadu02 wrote: post #37
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying this for years. I just don't understand it. A car that can drive ~40 miles on pure electric that has an ICE for longer trips would satisfy the needs of everyone. For like 90+% of people, it would mean never using gas for their commute while also eliminating range anxiety. I'm especially surprised about the lack of plug-in hybrids for semi trucks. I'd think having a little extra electronic torque woul…

This more than doubles the complexity, increases weight, has much lower battery capacity, and still sticks you with the maintenance work required for the ICE. Plus gas is a very volatile mix that degrades; you must run the ICE regularly to ensure the tank gets cycled.

Uh, exactly how long can I go between running the ICE engine before... something(?) happens to my gas and engine?

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#42

Post by pastor_bob »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #26
legitster wrote: post #11

> “ With current technology, full electrification isn’t possible now for some parts of our fleet, but we are monitoring closely and really hope it will be,” Gragnani said. We are really letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. At this moment in time, Plug-in hybrids are the superior technology for nearly every application. I don't understand why they get so overlooked by consumers and manufacturers alike.

I've been saying this for years. I just don't understand it. A car that can drive ~40 miles on pure electric that has an ICE for longer trips would satisfy the needs of everyone. For like 90+% of people, it would mean never using gas for their commute while also eliminating range anxiety. I'm especially surprised about the lack of plug-in hybrids for semi trucks. I'd think having a little extra electronic torque woul…

Most people would never plug it in. This would only be ideal if you could make using gas significantly more cost inefficient (i.e. astronomically higher gas prices), which will always be unpalatable in the US. Hopefully some states eventually have the guts to do it.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#43

Post by ericmay »

itsyaboi wrote: post #36
ericmay wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a good analogy because in this case the snow plows still plow so some snow is still removed. To use your analogy then they would have sold existing plow-capable trucks and not had any to plow, but that wasn't the case.

The tarp is partially effective, just like the electric trucks.

Yes, partially effective until the new energy efficient window is installed. Stop gap measure. Transition period. Etc.

I apologize if that wasn't extremely obvious from what I already wrote.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#44

Post by sfe22 »

nashashmi wrote: post #20

Small problems. They should have several battery rotation stations spread out everywhere. I wonder if their trucks can do 8 hours of driving without refueling?

If it were such an easy problem, why don't you fix it? Can become rich as well.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#45

Post by hattmall »

dekhn wrote: post #41
xenadu02 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This more than doubles the complexity, increases weight, has much lower battery capacity, and still sticks you with the maintenance work required for the ICE. Plus gas is a very volatile mix that degrades; you must run the ICE regularly to ensure the tank gets cycled.

Uh, exactly how long can I go between running the ICE engine before... something(?) happens to my gas and engine?

It's unlikely to be a one time thing. But recurrently letting gas sit for extended periods of time could cause issues. This mostly only applies to ethanol containing fuels. This is why boats need to use 100% gas. You should do the same for a plugin hybrid if you don't cycle the tank at least every 2-3 weeks. That's all it takes to damage a boat if it sits. Cars will be better but the repeated exposure would certainly take a toll.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#46

Post by ericmay »

legitster wrote: post #39
ericmay wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok we'll use gas trucks forever and never change or improve or invent anything new.

???? Or we can just electrify applications that currently make sense and work from there as the technology improves.

Instead of just being argumentative you should read my original post and the post I responded to.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#47

Post by legitster »

hattmall wrote: post #45
dekhn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, exactly how long can I go between running the ICE engine before... something(?) happens to my gas and engine?

It's unlikely to be a one time thing. But recurrently letting gas sit for extended periods of time could cause issues. This mostly only applies to ethanol containing fuels. This is why boats need to use 100% gas. You should do the same for a plugin hybrid if you don't cycle the tank at least every 2-3 weeks. That's all it takes to damage a boat if it sits. Cars will be better but the repeated exposure would certainly…

BMW had something for their i3 that ran the engine automatically every so often for this very reason.

But they also only stuck it with a 2 gallon tank.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#48

Post by legitster »

xenadu02 wrote: post #37
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying this for years. I just don't understand it. A car that can drive ~40 miles on pure electric that has an ICE for longer trips would satisfy the needs of everyone. For like 90+% of people, it would mean never using gas for their commute while also eliminating range anxiety. I'm especially surprised about the lack of plug-in hybrids for semi trucks. I'd think having a little extra electronic torque woul…

This more than doubles the complexity, increases weight, has much lower battery capacity, and still sticks you with the maintenance work required for the ICE. Plus gas is a very volatile mix that degrades; you must run the ICE regularly to ensure the tank gets cycled.

If you know ahead of time that the engine is going to run infrequently, there are lots of ways to mitigate this. The ICE is tantamount to a backup generator, and there are very reliable backup generators.

> This more than doubles the complexity, increases weight

I mean, US consumers already put up with this when it came to automatic transmissions. But the cost/maintenance problems were a fair trade-off for convenience.

And in the case of plug-in hybrids, they are VERY convenient. You almost never need to get gas, but you can still go on a road trip without any pre-planning.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#49

Post by dekhn »

hattmall wrote: post #45
dekhn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, exactly how long can I go between running the ICE engine before... something(?) happens to my gas and engine?

It's unlikely to be a one time thing. But recurrently letting gas sit for extended periods of time could cause issues. This mostly only applies to ethanol containing fuels. This is why boats need to use 100% gas. You should do the same for a plugin hybrid if you don't cycle the tank at least every 2-3 weeks. That's all it takes to damage a boat if it sits. Cars will be better but the repeated exposure would certainly…

What does "take a toll" mean? Sorry to be difficult but people tell me a lot of things will damage my car in the long term, but I haven't been able to reproduce any of those problems yet. The only thing that damaged my car was putting too much oil in it, that caused it to fail nearly immediately, and was covered by the warranty so it was free to replace the whole engine.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#50

Post by illegalsmile »

dekhn wrote: post #28
legitster wrote: post #11

> “ With current technology, full electrification isn’t possible now for some parts of our fleet, but we are monitoring closely and really hope it will be,” Gragnani said. We are really letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. At this moment in time, Plug-in hybrids are the superior technology for nearly every application. I don't understand why they get so overlooked by consumers and manufacturers alike.

Yes! I love my plug-in hybrid (Toyota RAV4 Prime). It gets about 40 miles on battery and then switches to gas. I've managed to drive 9000 miles on 3 tanks of gas (with a much larger energy bill, of course!) and I always have the confidence I could go on a long drive without depending on either slow, busy, or rare charging stations. I now even drive more slowly to maximize my EV range.

Same for my Chevy Volt. Works great in the city on electric for the vast majority of my driving and for the 10% of long trips filling up ~8gal is quick and effortless at any gas station. Most of my long trips aren't road trips, they're get to the destination trips. The vehicle also has over 100k miles and really has had no major maintenance requirements other than the usual which has been surprising.

That said, I really appreciate early adopters of EVs who are helping push the infrastructure.

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