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Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

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601–610 of 619 posts

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons we don’t have enough homes is because governments have made it illegal to build enough new homes to meet demand. You are essentially say that the presence of car collectors leads to car shortages.

Those things are not the same though! Cars and Houses do not perform in the same way financially. Houses tend to increase in value, Cars tend to decline in value. There are, of course, outliers in both markets.

Houses wear down just like cars. They behave exactly the same way.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#602
post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel your pain. And you still don't realize the worst part: things are going to get far far worse thanks to the new laws regarding energy "performance". Basically, laws now mandate every flat to have good thermal isolation, otherwise you can't rent them. Which means approx 30% of the housing in Paris will be banned from the renting market in the next 3 years. It started this very year. PS: and because we're french,…

>Which means approx 30% of the housing in Paris will be banned from the renting market in the next 3 years. It started this very year. Sorry, but what stopped the landlords/building managers from insulating the apartments in due time? I'm assuming there was a notice period given and the insulation mandate didn't spontaneously come out of nowhere. Could it be that most landlords are just greedy rentseekers who want to…

If you’re genuinely interested , it’s a very long story, but let me sum it up :

- in 2019 a law was passed, scheduled for being in effect starting 2023

- in 2020 they changed the way the evaluation was performed. Instead or relying on energy bills, they decided to create a formula with a tons of parameters.

- in 2021 they realized the shity formula was overestimating consumption waayyy too much, making a lot more housing improper for renting than expected (people saw their mark going from « C » to « F » or even « G »). They adjusted it.

- in 2022, the new formula is still bogus, but nothing changed

As an example, i live in the best insulated appartment i’ve ever lived in Paris (lived there for 40 years). It’s rated G (the worst), simply because it’s on the top floor.

And here we are, in 2023, with the first batch of housing being unauthorized for rental.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you think supply and demand do not exist in the housing market? Why would you think that I think this? That's really confusing. I think the issue you have here is that you are thinking in extremely simplistic terms and not really accounting for real supply and demand in this particular market. Instead of looking to Tokyo (which is a generally bad example because Tokyo and Japan are not great generalized mode…

I mean here's my responses to each of the four points you raised: 1) Interest rates make existing housing stock less expensive as people are unable to afford a property of the same price based on fixed monthly payments. 2) Housing standards are relatively consistent, and you know Tokyo is on a fault line right? 3) Developers will happily add any kind of unit they think they can sell, just look at what the city of SF…

> Interest rates make existing housing stock less expensive as people are unable to afford a property of the same price based on fixed monthly payments.

You are making overly-simplistic assumptions. Interest rates are one factor that can lead to prices going down to balance monthly payments, but you're forgetting that developers have to borrow money as well to build new housing or new condos or apartment units, renovate existing properties, and other things including running their businesses. This causes their IRR to change, and where a fixed monthly income from a new 35 unit apartment for rent or condo building or housing development makes sense at 0% or 1% rates, it may become unattractive at a higher rate or prices and rents have to increase to account for IRR. Don't make the mistake of assuming that higher interest rates simply lead to cheaper housing across the board. Even so, higher rates don't necessarily mean that housing prices go "back" to some historic price, and even then you have to account for various markets. San Francisco is going to be different than Denver, or Miami, or Topeka.

> Housing standards are relatively consistent,

Housing regulations, build rules and quality, size, etc. all these factors are consistent across the US and Tokyo/Japan? If so, that's news to me. I don't recall Ohio where I live having the same environmental reviews (for example) as California, or the need to build to withstand earthquakes. Or are you saying that Tokyo and San Francisco have the same housing standards?

> Developers will happily add any kind of unit they think they can sell, just look at what the city of SF is rejecting on a regular basis. But even if you only build luxury housing, that pushes existing wealth out of less fancy units opening them up to lower wealth tiers.

While it's true that San Francisco in particular may be rejecting units, you are making a mistake by equating "developers will happily add any kind of unit they think they can sell" with "developers will happily add any kind of new unit they think they can sell at an internal IRR based on interest rates and market conditions".

You are also mistaken because you believe that adding "luxury" housing creates a drop in prices for other housing, that does not necessarily follow when there is pent-up demand at the cheaper price points. What you do is just increase the median rent price, not lower it, in markets like San Francisco or New York or other highly desirable areas.

> New supply is new supply. Period.

Overly-simplistic and you can show that this isn't the case by a simple thought experiment where a developer builds nothing but $50,000/month condos or $5mm homes - supply is added but doesn't alleviate housing shortages.

> Lack of available workers factors into cost of construction, but cost of construction is absolutely dwarfed by market prices. If we were close at all to it, we could include (4) but we're just not.

What do you mean "cost of construction is absolutely dwarfed by market prices"? Are you saying that it's cheaper to build new housing and sell it than it is to sell existing housing?

> This constrains demand, but the point remains that in their market supply and demand meet. Supply and demand can meet by increasing supply or by decreasing demand.

Sure but you are oversimplifying things and you can't generalize Tokyo to the US or San Francisco. Do the same thought experiment with Hong Kong, Singapore, or London.

> Btw, Japan’s immigration policies are actually very lax, but the perception of their culture as unwelcoming to outsiders creates little actual demand. The US immigration policies by contrast are significantly more stringent.

I'm not sure this is true anyway, but it doesn't matter if the effect is the same = fewer immigrants. Difficult to compare Japan versus anywhere really so I'm not sure why you continue to do so.

> Density and transit are a chicken and egg problem. More density however allows you to invest more in transit.

Yes but it is still an existing problem which is why I mentioned it. Hard to build new housing when you have mandatory parking minimums and such (I believe but could be wrong that these were removed in California as a whole last year).

> This wasn’t the case historically and there’s no reason to think it can’t be the case in the future except for lack of zoning reform.

By that rationale land in California should be free/extremely cheap because it used to be in 1880.

> I look forward to your dissertation on why supply and demand stops working when it’s nice outside ;)

So climate isn't a factor in housing prices? Why are you taking such extreme positions? "supply and demand stops working" who said that? Certainly not me.

> Especially since during COVID rents fell massively in SF as supply outstripped demand - even thought the weather remained lovely.

I mentioned COVID already but it also primarily applies to office vacancies. San Francisco in particular is still very expensive to live in even despite COVID for obvious reasons - it took a global pandemic and entire shutdown of the city to get rents to drop. Populations ebb and flow, markets go up, they go down, etc.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#604
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Which means approx 30% of the housing in Paris will be banned from the renting market in the next 3 years. It started this very year. Sorry, but what stopped the landlords/building managers from insulating the apartments in due time? I'm assuming there was a notice period given and the insulation mandate didn't spontaneously come out of nowhere. Could it be that most landlords are just greedy rentseekers who want to…

If you’re genuinely interested , it’s a very long story, but let me sum it up : - in 2019 a law was passed, scheduled for being in effect starting 2023 - in 2020 they changed the way the evaluation was performed. Instead or relying on energy bills, they decided to create a formula with a tons of parameters. - in 2021 they realized the shity formula was overestimating consumption waayyy too much, making a lot more hou…

That sounds like a huge fuckup on the government authorities that made this decision. Such mandates should give at least 5 years notice for owners to have time to upgrade their apartments.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#606

If you think this law will be easy to sidestep, please read this post first: https://old.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/zz92li/prohi... It appears that the law is well-designed to avoid such abuses and loopholes. Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1494/

Wouldn't the following still work? Step 1: Create a Canadian company. Own 100% of its shares. Step 2: Buy property in all-cash transactions. Step 3: Enjoy ownership as a foreign buyer.

No, it won't. Foreign entity cannot have interest in Canadian homes. Owning the company that owns the home is having interest, thus is covered by the ban. This is explained in the link.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#607
post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Paris to start a new job recently, and the housing situation sucks so much. The prices in Paris are fairly high, 1000€ for a 30m² flat. But that's the relatively small heart of "Paris intra muros", excluding the "banlieues" (suburbs) which are cheaper and 30 minutes to an hour with the Métro (or the RER). That doesn't sound more unaffordable than London, not on a tech salary and colleagues have told me co-…

> For the record, I'm an EU citizen and I have a doctorate in a tech subject. My French colleagues have shared similar rental horror stories. I have no idea how people manage who are worse off financially, or come from outside the EU. Having read all of this, I have no doubt that the experience you're relating is true, nonetheless, it makes me wonder how Paris's immigration boom is happening. When I was last there, m…

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Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#608
post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't Amsterdam (5000 people / km2) be as dense as San Francisco (7000/km2)? Why can't San Francisco be as dense as New York City (11000/km2)? Why can't New York City be as dense as Barcelona or Seoul (16000/km2)? These are the most productive cities, with the most opportunities, and more people want to move there. Why should they be forced to live in less desirable places?

You're still doing it...obsessing over a tiny amount of places. "The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation — the national housing agency — said in a June report that close to 19 million housing units will be needed by 2030." Widen your view! These 19 million homes aren't going to be built in 1 or 2 cities.

People cite these cities because they are recognizable, but the hallmarks of the housing crisis are felt all over. Prices are rising even in cheap places like the midwest, because even in those places the rate of new construction is not high enough to meet demand, so prices rise as people bid on limited inventory.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#609
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re genuinely interested , it’s a very long story, but let me sum it up : - in 2019 a law was passed, scheduled for being in effect starting 2023 - in 2020 they changed the way the evaluation was performed. Instead or relying on energy bills, they decided to create a formula with a tons of parameters. - in 2021 they realized the shity formula was overestimating consumption waayyy too much, making a lot more hou…

That sounds like a huge fuckup on the government authorities that made this decision. Such mandates should give at least 5 years notice for owners to have time to upgrade their apartments.

Yes. But see, it’s coming from the same government that ended up closing the underwear section from supermarkets during covid « for sanitary reasons », or ended up forbidding drinking inside trains (that one lasted only for a few days, because it was too crazy even for them).

We now even have a word for the country they’re turning france into : Absurdistan.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a fine investment in a diversified portfolio because traditionally it was a hedge in both capital and monthly cash flow, and decoupled from other asset classes. It also offered freedom where you can make improvements to the land to increase the rate of growth. There were also non-monetary investments because your lifestyle choices had certain kinds of freedoms it offered (in exchange for giving up others) So it’…

Typically when we say that something is a “good investment”, we mean that it’s something that increases in value faster than inflation. Conversely, for something to remain affordable over a long period of time, its price must grow no faster than inflation.

As I understand it, a good investment portfolio is one that increases in value faster than inflation. A single investment though can be at inflation or even generate slight negative returns if it's role is as a hedge to sacrifice some of your overall upside to limit your downside risk. Did I get that wrong?
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