Why does critical infrastructure need to be among the first to “go green?”
We can't afford to make things "go green" serially, we need to move on all fronts at once.
NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
21–30 of 579 posts
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#22I wonder what the longer-term solution is for this? More trucks? Exchangeable batteries? Faster charging?
Swappable batteries is how some countries are migrating to ev for motorcycle/scooter taxis, just swap batteries and keep moving passengers. The cost savings seems to be worth it, read that its about 75% savings against fuel costs. The easy solutions will go first, working its way up with better tech and design. I think car/fleet size batteries isn't really feasible with swapping batteries. Small scooter batteries see…
I don't know about this. I don't think battery swapping scales up very well.
Firstly, I know someone who works on Daimler's electric trucks and he assures me that their electric powertrains are EXTREMELY dangerous just from the amount of power represented. Union operators have expressed negative interest in connecting/disconnecting the batteries outside of the factory.
Secondly, the economics - the battery pack on a Tesla already represents over half of the materials and manufacturing cost. And it's the only scarce thing about EVs. If you are a fleet operator and have to maintain a bank of batteries to charge, you may as well just buy the bodies to go with.
So I would guess that in an EV fleet future where the cost of batteries has dropped significantly, you will probably see the size of the fleets increase as operating costs drop.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yea just better tech. It’s not a big deal. And it’s all in progress. News just likes to make headlines about anything new so you get scared about it.
I dunno, "we've made things worse but someone will come along and make it better" is not exactly confidence inspiring. Especially given the amount of wasted money/resources you will generate along the way.
Not great framing because nobody made electric vehicles worse, they started off at a certain level of performance and then they'll just improve from there.
Now you could say well we made snow plowing worse, and of course in this specific example you'd be right, but you'd be ignoring longer time horizons and not really comparing or accounting for the impact of negative externalities.
An easy way to think about it is if you uninstalled an existing window and had tarp on it for a few days while you installed a more energy efficient window. You wouldn't say "things are worse now!", you'd recognize that you're making a change which is better over the long term.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#24Anyone else remember learning about the "Five Year Plans" of the old Soviet Union?
Yes and, unfortunately, conversation around these issues always falls into the Communism vs. Capatalism line of debate rather than ossification of systems consolidation of power - the far more impactful topic.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I dunno, "we've made things worse but someone will come along and make it better" is not exactly confidence inspiring. Especially given the amount of wasted money/resources you will generate along the way.
Not great framing because nobody made electric vehicles worse, they started off at a certain level of performance and then they'll just improve from there. Now you could say well we made snow plowing worse, and of course in this specific example you'd be right, but you'd be ignoring longer time horizons and not really comparing or accounting for the impact of negative externalities. An easy way to think about it is i…
A more apt analogy would be if you removed the existing window without having ordered a new one or found a contractor to install it.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#26> “ With current technology, full electrification isn’t possible now for some parts of our fleet, but we are monitoring closely and really hope it will be,” Gragnani said. We are really letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. At this moment in time, Plug-in hybrids are the superior technology for nearly every application. I don't understand why they get so overlooked by consumers and manufacturers alike.
I've been saying this for years.
I just don't understand it. A car that can drive ~40 miles on pure electric that has an ICE for longer trips would satisfy the needs of everyone. For like 90+% of people, it would mean never using gas for their commute while also eliminating range anxiety.
I'm especially surprised about the lack of plug-in hybrids for semi trucks. I'd think having a little extra electronic torque would help considerably when accelerating. It doesn't need to go 0-60 in 20 seconds while carrying 80K lbs like the Tesla Semi claims, but certainly having extra power could be useful in some scenarios. Heck, just having regen braking would be a game changer when going down hills. No noise from a Jake Brake, and no worries about burning up brake pads.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not great framing because nobody made electric vehicles worse, they started off at a certain level of performance and then they'll just improve from there. Now you could say well we made snow plowing worse, and of course in this specific example you'd be right, but you'd be ignoring longer time horizons and not really comparing or accounting for the impact of negative externalities. An easy way to think about it is i…
A more apt analogy would be if you removed the existing window without having ordered a new one or found a contractor to install it.
That's not a good analogy because in this case the snow plows still plow so some snow is still removed. To use your analogy then they would have sold existing plow-capable trucks and not had any to plow, but that wasn't the case.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#28> “ With current technology, full electrification isn’t possible now for some parts of our fleet, but we are monitoring closely and really hope it will be,” Gragnani said. We are really letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. At this moment in time, Plug-in hybrids are the superior technology for nearly every application. I don't understand why they get so overlooked by consumers and manufacturers alike.
Yes! I love my plug-in hybrid (Toyota RAV4 Prime). It gets about 40 miles on battery and then switches to gas. I've managed to drive 9000 miles on 3 tanks of gas (with a much larger energy bill, of course!) and I always have the confidence I could go on a long drive without depending on either slow, busy, or rare charging stations. I now even drive more slowly to maximize my EV range.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I dunno, "we've made things worse but someone will come along and make it better" is not exactly confidence inspiring. Especially given the amount of wasted money/resources you will generate along the way.
Not great framing because nobody made electric vehicles worse, they started off at a certain level of performance and then they'll just improve from there. Now you could say well we made snow plowing worse, and of course in this specific example you'd be right, but you'd be ignoring longer time horizons and not really comparing or accounting for the impact of negative externalities. An easy way to think about it is i…
> An easy way to think about it is if you uninstalled an existing window and had tarp on it for a few days while you installed a more energy efficient window.
A more apt analogy would be if the new window was not even invented yet.
Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Swappable batteries is how some countries are migrating to ev for motorcycle/scooter taxis, just swap batteries and keep moving passengers. The cost savings seems to be worth it, read that its about 75% savings against fuel costs. The easy solutions will go first, working its way up with better tech and design. I think car/fleet size batteries isn't really feasible with swapping batteries. Small scooter batteries see…
I don't know about this. I don't think battery swapping scales up very well. Firstly, I know someone who works on Daimler's electric trucks and he assures me that their electric powertrains are EXTREMELY dangerous just from the amount of power represented. Union operators have expressed negative interest in connecting/disconnecting the batteries outside of the factory. Secondly, the economics - the battery pack on a…
Its already being used at the scooter level, scales fine there for small applications where batteries are as easy to replace as filling the tank of gas.