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Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

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Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#11
post #5

> Stock rises after company announces broad restructuring plan focused on driving ‘profitable growth’ Could someone explain how layoffs lead to stock rises in layman terms?

It suggests greater profitability due to lower ongoing headcount costs? Or decisive changes towards increased profitability?

Also, sometimes I suspect that the market moves on news -- not because the news actually affects some prospects so much -- but because some other people can make money on the movement, and the news is just an excuse/tool.

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#12
post #5

> Stock rises after company announces broad restructuring plan focused on driving ‘profitable growth’ Could someone explain how layoffs lead to stock rises in layman terms?

Company makes $2B/year profit with 75k employees.

Company lays off 7500 people, saving ~$1.5B / year in payroll / benefits / office space / etc.

Company takes one-time ~$1.5B charge for severance and other layoff costs.

Investors believe company will see ~$1B more net profit in subsequent years, assuming 10% staff reduction can be absorbed with little profit impact.

Share price reflects NPV of future profits, so stock rises.

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#13
post #10

I forget which podcast I heard it on (so forgive me if my memory is sloppy), but after their latest quarterly report didn't CAC payback go from 24 months to something wild like 10 years? Meaning their new ARR add rapidly fell off so quickly, before they adjusted their Sales and Marketing salaries and spending, that it immediately put their unit economics way way way way underwater. So I'd expect at least a big chunk…

It’s rather amusing, in a dark sense, that Salesforce is about to lay off part of their sales force.

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#14
Last time they did this, it was _right_ after the window that they had grandstanded and asked other companies to pledge no pandemic layoffs.

Benioff did a whole media tour talking about how Salesforce would do no pandemic layoffs to set some kind of example, and said that they didn't expect other companies to follow their example, but asked them to just pledge no layoffs for 90 days, even though Salesforce was going to do better than that.

Around 91 says later, Salesforce laid off 10% of the company, with no prior warning to the employees who were laid off. The atmosphere internally from the top down was outrage that any of the employees who were laid off would mention that they got laid off to their family/friends/coworkers, and that doing so was somehow a betrayal of "trust".

Brett Taylor, who was then the "co-CEO" (read: Benioff's cleanup crew and babysitter), led an all-hands a month or so later where they took no questions and referred to this as a "one-time reshaping exercise". Benioff slipped up and told MSNBC that this was an annual thing. Brett Taylor pretended not to know Benioff had said that, and acted like it never happened.

This all-hands was a full month after the all-hands that took place the same week as the layoffs. In that one, they took questions, but since all the questions were about the layoffs, they acted like nobody had submitted any questions and the Q&A host came up with some softball "what projects are you excited about"/"what's the biggest challenge with being a market leader" ego questions instead.

I didn't believe that it was "one-time" then, and today I've learned that I was right not to. I left before it became a habit, and have only been relieved to have left.

I wonder when the next annual 10% layoffs will happen at Salesforce? Because it's pretty much the only thing I'd trust them to do reliably at this point.

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#15
post #12
post #5

> Stock rises after company announces broad restructuring plan focused on driving ‘profitable growth’ Could someone explain how layoffs lead to stock rises in layman terms?

Company makes $2B/year profit with 75k employees. Company lays off 7500 people, saving ~$1.5B / year in payroll / benefits / office space / etc. Company takes one-time ~$1.5B charge for severance and other layoff costs. Investors believe company will see ~$1B more net profit in subsequent years, assuming 10% staff reduction can be absorbed with little profit impact. Share price reflects NPV of future profits, so stoc…

At my first job they would lay off employees, then systems would fail and the person who could fix it was laid off. Eventually a big customer would complain and the company would incur monetary SLA penalties for the systems being down. They would have to hire the laid off guy back as a contractor and pay some company $100+ an hour for a $30 (at the time) an hour salary employee.

Eventually someone with a brain would realize they are hemorrhaging money and hire the guy back full time and even make it look like he was never laid off for 2 years contracting so he would keep his seniority benefits. My coworkers with 20+ years said this happened over and over again. I left and everyone was laid off in 6 months…

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#16

Last time they did this, it was _right_ after the window that they had grandstanded and asked other companies to pledge no pandemic layoffs. Benioff did a whole media tour talking about how Salesforce would do no pandemic layoffs to set some kind of example, and said that they didn't expect other companies to follow their example, but asked them to just pledge no layoffs for 90 days, even though Salesforce was going…

well sounds like we can expect them next year.

What I don’t understand is why they don’t stretch it out over the whole year - less than 1% a month could be relatively easily “hidden” even if people kinda know what is going on. Average churn might be lower than that, even.

Which makes me think it’s performative and they WANT the shareholders to see it.

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#17
post #16

Last time they did this, it was _right_ after the window that they had grandstanded and asked other companies to pledge no pandemic layoffs. Benioff did a whole media tour talking about how Salesforce would do no pandemic layoffs to set some kind of example, and said that they didn't expect other companies to follow their example, but asked them to just pledge no layoffs for 90 days, even though Salesforce was going…

well sounds like we can expect them next year. What I don’t understand is why they don’t stretch it out over the whole year - less than 1% a month could be relatively easily “hidden” even if people kinda know what is going on. Average churn might be lower than that, even. Which makes me think it’s performative and they WANT the shareholders to see it.

> less than 1% a month could be relatively easily “hidden”

If your a public company it’s not hidden. Analysts are watching everything. A one time even might hit your stock and then it starts to recover soon after, but an ongoing event would raise suspicions of a deeper problem.

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#18
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company makes $2B/year profit with 75k employees. Company lays off 7500 people, saving ~$1.5B / year in payroll / benefits / office space / etc. Company takes one-time ~$1.5B charge for severance and other layoff costs. Investors believe company will see ~$1B more net profit in subsequent years, assuming 10% staff reduction can be absorbed with little profit impact. Share price reflects NPV of future profits, so stoc…

At my first job they would lay off employees, then systems would fail and the person who could fix it was laid off. Eventually a big customer would complain and the company would incur monetary SLA penalties for the systems being down. They would have to hire the laid off guy back as a contractor and pay some company $100+ an hour for a $30 (at the time) an hour salary employee. Eventually someone with a brain would…

It SOMETIMES works. You lay off 50 people and only have to contract back one or two and it’s a net savings.

But often it’s just boardroom machinations for various reasons that can change as quickly as the weather.

I know people who made a good living being the layoff/callback dude for years. Basically considered it a 3-6 mo vacation every couple years. “Oh you want me to come in to consult? I’m in the Bahamas- it’s gonna costya”

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#19
post #9

makes sense given their employee to revenue ratio for Salesforce. They had 73,000 employees with just ~31B/year of revenue. That’s just 424k of revenue per employee. Such a ratio only makes sense with high growth rates.

Am I the only one who thinks $424k/employee is quite a lot? May be a too european perspective?

Re: Salesforce will lay off 10% of staff as part of restructuring

#20
post #17
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well sounds like we can expect them next year. What I don’t understand is why they don’t stretch it out over the whole year - less than 1% a month could be relatively easily “hidden” even if people kinda know what is going on. Average churn might be lower than that, even. Which makes me think it’s performative and they WANT the shareholders to see it.

> less than 1% a month could be relatively easily “hidden” If your a public company it’s not hidden. Analysts are watching everything. A one time even might hit your stock and then it starts to recover soon after, but an ongoing event would raise suspicions of a deeper problem.

maybe they could start to move to more 'contract/project' folks, vs 'employees'. rotating short term contractors would be similar amount of 'churn' but might be seen as more strategic/focused investments vs having to grow headcount only to want/need to do layoffs regularly.
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