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Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

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Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#21

Post by rayiner »

modo_mario wrote: post #20
lettergram wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked in a company with a union? Look what just happened to the railroad workers. The US government forced them back to work and gave everything to the companies. Unions are effectively a corporation running labor. So you go from working for the company to working for your union rep. They then pimp you out and get kick backs. Wanna leave your job for another company or role? Good luck, you drop in seni…

I find it weird that nobody in the US seems to look beyond their country or similar systems for different models regarding this. Here in Belgium we have some industry specific unions like for rail (idk how the government in the US forces em to do anything). But most unions are cross industry. They aren't really noticed when working in the context of a specific company too often unless mediation is needed when big lay…

> I find it weird that nobody in the US seems to look beyond their country or similar systems for different models regarding this.

Looking to European models would be great. But the current American union structure is written into federal statute, and there is approximately zero chance of the statute ever being amended.

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#22

Post by hiddencost »

thunky wrote: post #8
yakattak wrote: post #4

Game companies need this. It’s one of the “software engineering” adjacent subfields that is extremely exploited. The salaries are low, the work is stressful, crunch is high. The reason for this dangerous combo? You’re working your dream job. This is good, I hope the employees at ActivisionBlizzard can finalize their union if they’re purchased by Microsoft.

> The reason for this dangerous combo? You’re working your dream job. Doesn't that make it a fair trade? Musicians generally don't make a killing either.

I think of it like this:

It's the company's job to maximize shareholder value.

It's the worker's job to maximize worker value.

It's the market's job to push profit to zero.

So the union is like a new force in the equation: they put pressure on the company to give the workers more value.

Which could actually be good for business: if treating workers results in better work product, the shareholders might not push for that (typically markets optimize for quarterly earnings). But the union can secure better conditions for the workers, which might lead to moving to a better local maxima.

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#23

Post by robertlagrant »

RupertWiser wrote: post #16
thunky wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason for this dangerous combo? You’re working your dream job. Doesn't that make it a fair trade? Musicians generally don't make a killing either.

I’m not sure it’s fair if the product ends up making a boat loads of money. Games are high risk but a very lucrative industry. Just look at how successful football players were in getting a slice of the pie. I’d still consider that a dream job.

> Just look at how successful football players were in getting a slice of the pie. I’d still consider that a dream job.

In this case they are the product, and there are a lot of customers. Plenty of people working on the things that make those players valuable, building and staffing stadiums, and filming and broadcasting events worldwide, that don't get a share. Because they aren't the product.

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#24

Post by nordsieck »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #19
RupertWiser wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure it’s fair if the product ends up making a boat loads of money. Games are high risk but a very lucrative industry. Just look at how successful football players were in getting a slice of the pie. I’d still consider that a dream job.

Not that successful, assuming you're talking about American football. The players as a whole get a bit less than half of all revenue coming in despite being the ones to actually, you know, play the game.

From what I can tell, that's fundamentally because of the limited number of franchises.

The situation is a bit like cabs in NY city before Uber/Lyft - the medallion owners were the ones who were making the real money.

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#25

Post by [deleted] »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #19
RupertWiser wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure it’s fair if the product ends up making a boat loads of money. Games are high risk but a very lucrative industry. Just look at how successful football players were in getting a slice of the pie. I’d still consider that a dream job.

Not that successful, assuming you're talking about American football. The players as a whole get a bit less than half of all revenue coming in despite being the ones to actually, you know, play the game.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#26

Post by robertlagrant »

4ggr0 wrote: post #3

I tink unions in tech should be established while the industry is still in the gold rush. Sure, tech salaries are very high currently and tech workers tend to have more freedom in their jobs, but who knows for how long this will persist. Better start building unions now, it's never too early for that.

Gold flowing and competition are what make salaries go up to the extent you're talking.

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#27

Post by impish9208 »

The most interesting bit, IMHO, is this:

    > In June, Mi­crosoft said it was open to work­ing with any la­bor unions that want to or­ga­nize within its work­force, mak­ing it an out­lier in the tech in­dus­try. Last year Ama­zon.­com Inc. con­tested work­ers’ ef­forts to union­ize. Mi­crosoft has said it would sup­port work­ers at Ac­tivi­sion Bliz­zard Inc. who or­ga­nized last year should its $75 bil­lion deal for the “Call of Duty” de­vel­oper close.

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#28

Post by susanasj »

lettergram wrote: post #7
yakattak wrote: post #4

Game companies need this. It’s one of the “software engineering” adjacent subfields that is extremely exploited. The salaries are low, the work is stressful, crunch is high. The reason for this dangerous combo? You’re working your dream job. This is good, I hope the employees at ActivisionBlizzard can finalize their union if they’re purchased by Microsoft.

Have you ever worked in a company with a union? Look what just happened to the railroad workers. The US government forced them back to work and gave everything to the companies. Unions are effectively a corporation running labor. So you go from working for the company to working for your union rep. They then pimp you out and get kick backs. Wanna leave your job for another company or role? Good luck, you drop in seni…

this is close to just straight up misinformation, but I'll point out the fundamental difference that you are ignoring in your analogy. You pay your union rep (via dues). It's not that you work for your union rep, it's that they work for you, just like you work for your company.

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#29

Post by phpisthebest »

modo_mario wrote: post #20
lettergram wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked in a company with a union? Look what just happened to the railroad workers. The US government forced them back to work and gave everything to the companies. Unions are effectively a corporation running labor. So you go from working for the company to working for your union rep. They then pimp you out and get kick backs. Wanna leave your job for another company or role? Good luck, you drop in seni…

I find it weird that nobody in the US seems to look beyond their country or similar systems for different models regarding this. Here in Belgium we have some industry specific unions like for rail (idk how the government in the US forces em to do anything). But most unions are cross industry. They aren't really noticed when working in the context of a specific company too often unless mediation is needed when big lay…

>>I find it weird that nobody in the US seems to look beyond their country or similar systems for different models regarding this.

because American law only allows for American Style Labor Unions, and changing American Law would be politically impossible as the American Style Labor Unions have outsized power in politics

So looking at "other models" is pointless

Re: Microsoft workers to form company’s first union in the U.S.

#30

Post by TheBigSalad »

lettergram wrote: post #7
yakattak wrote: post #4

Game companies need this. It’s one of the “software engineering” adjacent subfields that is extremely exploited. The salaries are low, the work is stressful, crunch is high. The reason for this dangerous combo? You’re working your dream job. This is good, I hope the employees at ActivisionBlizzard can finalize their union if they’re purchased by Microsoft.

Have you ever worked in a company with a union? Look what just happened to the railroad workers. The US government forced them back to work and gave everything to the companies. Unions are effectively a corporation running labor. So you go from working for the company to working for your union rep. They then pimp you out and get kick backs. Wanna leave your job for another company or role? Good luck, you drop in seni…

"Look what just happened to the railroad workers. The US government forced them back to work and gave everything to the companies." I'm sure the US government is going to step in at some point and force Activision to make a new CoD.
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