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Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

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Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#21

Post by kmeisthax »

pjc50 wrote: post #3

Bizarre article that thinks the rise of worker power through unions might be bad for the Left?

It's not bad for the Left, but potentially catastrophic to a Democratic Party whose party consensus is based off neoliberal economics and plenty of "don't talk about class, talk about race".

Of course, this is also balanced out by the fact that the Republican Party has no clue where to go post-Trump (or, hell, post-Romney). They can't even get internal consensus on electing a House speaker.

I'm pretty sure this article's author has an axe to grind against both left-wing politics and the DNC, though. The article's premise relies on the idea that a good chunk of the Democratic Party virtue-signals progressive causes to avoid criticism of their labor practices. That's true, but not the whole story - the Republican party is similarly paralyzed by the donor class. The underlying problem is that SCOTUS kicked the legs off of election finance rules in the name of the 1st Amendment. First they said money can be speech (reasonable) and then said there's no justification for contribution limits (wtf no).

So now corporations regularly outspeak everyone else. Both parties are ideological zombies made up of call center employees who regularly moonlight as Senators and Representatives. This gives rise to "anti-partisan" issues; where both parties agree to kill "common-sense" or "everyone agrees on this" kinds of bills that would harm the donor class interests. Think about how much of a problem it has been just to get decent right-to-repair legislation going, just as an example.

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#22

Post by dsfyu404ed »

esarbe wrote: post #20
roenxi wrote: post #6

"Progressive" makes it sound like the Republicans don't support it. There has been in-practice bipartisan support for the growth of the centrally planned economy. It wouldn't surprise me if the US government has fairly direct control over more than half the financial flows in the US economy after including 2nd order effects; even though officially it is only around 40%. The political consensus has been "This is good,…

> They are barely competent at running the key government institutions. That's by design. In the last forty years, Reaganism has firmly taken hold of both parties, i.e. "starve the beast". This is at display again currently with the efforts of getting the IRS's budget cut - nevermind that improved collection would improve the budget. It's not about the budget - it's about who's paying the bill. Or not paying - in thi…

The tax code is like the speed limit. If they enforced it 100% (or substantially closer to 100%) it would wind up getting changed to reflect reality and that would be counterproductive to the goals of everyone who complains it's not enforced enough.

The billionaires and other people with nebulous and complicated finances would actually be the people least effected by greater enforcement because their arrangements typically are at least legal on face value whereas the average types of noncompliance are obviously in violation of the tax code so you'd be seeing 1099 people, people with side gigs and people with business income getting hit most frequently and hardest.

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#23

Post by zozbot234 »

esarbe wrote: post #20
roenxi wrote: post #6

"Progressive" makes it sound like the Republicans don't support it. There has been in-practice bipartisan support for the growth of the centrally planned economy. It wouldn't surprise me if the US government has fairly direct control over more than half the financial flows in the US economy after including 2nd order effects; even though officially it is only around 40%. The political consensus has been "This is good,…

> They are barely competent at running the key government institutions. That's by design. In the last forty years, Reaganism has firmly taken hold of both parties, i.e. "starve the beast". This is at display again currently with the efforts of getting the IRS's budget cut - nevermind that improved collection would improve the budget. It's not about the budget - it's about who's paying the bill. Or not paying - in thi…

"Starve the beast" was quite successful during the 1990s, the U.S. had constant budget surpluses and was paying down debt. And it happened under a Democratic administration.

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#24

Post by francisofascii »

> the future may be brighter for people who can install plumbing systems than those who perform tasks easily done by machine. “It’s the end of the white-collar knowledge work,”

As someone who has been struggling to find a person to update our bathroom who isn't charging obscene prices, this kinda resonated with me. It dawned on me that these guy's hourly rate might be higher than mine right now. Rather than leetcode or side projects I actually started watching YouTube videos about home improvement. I successfully installed a new vanity / sink. Very satisfying to accomplish. I suppose we are all engineers, and can transition to what is in demand. A shower install could be a higher lift, though. :)

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#25

Post by esarbe »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #22
esarbe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are barely competent at running the key government institutions. That's by design. In the last forty years, Reaganism has firmly taken hold of both parties, i.e. "starve the beast". This is at display again currently with the efforts of getting the IRS's budget cut - nevermind that improved collection would improve the budget. It's not about the budget - it's about who's paying the bill. Or not paying - in thi…

The tax code is like the speed limit. If they enforced it 100% (or substantially closer to 100%) it would wind up getting changed to reflect reality and that would be counterproductive to the goals of everyone who complains it's not enforced enough. The billionaires and other people with nebulous and complicated finances would actually be the people least effected by greater enforcement because their arrangements typ…

> If they enforced it 100% (or substantially closer to 100%) it would wind up getting changed to reflect reality

That would be a good outcome.

> that would be counterproductive to the goals of everyone who complains it's not enforced enough.

I don't agree at all. I want transparency, not deal-cutting for special-interests behind closed doors. That's a recipe for corruption.

> people with side gigs and people with business income getting hit most frequently and hardest.

It's not only about enforcement, even auditing the relevant people is not happening. At it is, the IRS doesn't even have the money to audit rich people[0]. Besides; the IRS could still decide to not target anyone making less than 250K.

[0] https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#26

Post by ElfinTrousers »

zozbot234 wrote: post #23
esarbe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are barely competent at running the key government institutions. That's by design. In the last forty years, Reaganism has firmly taken hold of both parties, i.e. "starve the beast". This is at display again currently with the efforts of getting the IRS's budget cut - nevermind that improved collection would improve the budget. It's not about the budget - it's about who's paying the bill. Or not paying - in thi…

"Starve the beast" was quite successful during the 1990s, the U.S. had constant budget surpluses and was paying down debt. And it happened under a Democratic administration.

That was also an exceptional time where the USA was benefiting from a huge one-time windfall, i.e. the end of the Cold War and commensurate reduction of the biggest line item in the US budget (the military).

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#27

Post by yucky »

zozbot234 wrote: post #23
esarbe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are barely competent at running the key government institutions. That's by design. In the last forty years, Reaganism has firmly taken hold of both parties, i.e. "starve the beast". This is at display again currently with the efforts of getting the IRS's budget cut - nevermind that improved collection would improve the budget. It's not about the budget - it's about who's paying the bill. Or not paying - in thi…

"Starve the beast" was quite successful during the 1990s, the U.S. had constant budget surpluses and was paying down debt. And it happened under a Democratic administration.

   > And it happened under a Democratic administration.
It was a Republican Congress though who tied Clintons hands and forced him to sign on to a balanced budget after the absolute drubbing the Democrats took in 1994 midterms, losing 50 seats in the House and control of both chambers of Congress. In the end, they found a way to work together and we benefited greatly from that era until 9/11 snapped the government back into constant growth mode.

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#28

Post by taylodl »

ElfinTrousers wrote: post #26
zozbot234 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Starve the beast" was quite successful during the 1990s, the U.S. had constant budget surpluses and was paying down debt. And it happened under a Democratic administration.

That was also an exceptional time where the USA was benefiting from a huge one-time windfall, i.e. the end of the Cold War and commensurate reduction of the biggest line item in the US budget (the military).

The Cold War never resumed, so it wasn't a "one-time" windfall. It was Bush Jr.'s foolhardiness to cut taxes AND wage two wars simultaneously that eliminated the surplus and sent the deficit soaring.

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#29

Post by esarbe »

taylodl wrote: post #28
ElfinTrousers wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was also an exceptional time where the USA was benefiting from a huge one-time windfall, i.e. the end of the Cold War and commensurate reduction of the biggest line item in the US budget (the military).

The Cold War never resumed, so it wasn't a "one-time" windfall. It was Bush Jr.'s foolhardiness to cut taxes AND wage two wars simultaneously that eliminated the surplus and sent the deficit soaring.

Along with both parties in congress. The tax cuts were later extended. There were very few sane minds at the time in the US.

Re: Collapse of the progressive economy: the future belongs to blue-collar workers

#30

Post by ElfinTrousers »

esarbe wrote: post #29
taylodl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cold War never resumed, so it wasn't a "one-time" windfall. It was Bush Jr.'s foolhardiness to cut taxes AND wage two wars simultaneously that eliminated the surplus and sent the deficit soaring.

Along with both parties in congress. The tax cuts were later extended. There were very few sane minds at the time in the US.

Yes, they came up with one of the great all-time thoughtstoppers in that time: "You're either with us, or with the terrorists".
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