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Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

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Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#91

Set family {{1,2,3,4}, {1}, {2}, {3}, {4}} has all 4 elements appearing in exactly 2 sets out of the 5, that is 40%. What am I missing?

Your example is not union-closed.

"A collection, or family, of sets is considered “union-closed” if the union of any two sets in the family equals any existing set in the family."

EDIT: In your hypothetical collection of sets, the union of "2" and "3" would produce the set "2,3" which is not an enumerated set in your list.

Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#92

Set family {{1,2,3,4}, {1}, {2}, {3}, {4}} has all 4 elements appearing in exactly 2 sets out of the 5, that is 40%. What am I missing?

Check out the replies to this comment [1] with the same attempted counterexample. Your set isn't union closed because {1}U{2} = {1, 2} isn't in it (same for {1}U{3} etc.).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34236889#34240381

Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#93
post #9

Always cool to see unexpected applications of information theory, especially outside of probabilistic contexts. A related toy example that comes to mind is the puzzle where you're given 12 metal balls and told that one of them is either heavier or lighter than the rest. You're then given a balance/scale and instructed to figure out which ball is different and whether it is heavier or lighter using the balance a maxim…

I once made a cool solution to this problem using information theory, in particular coding theory. The usual solution uses the fact there are 3 places to put items: left scale, off scale, and right scale. Then those solutions do if/then cases to juggle items around to find the mis-weighted ball. My solution numbered the balls in base 3, then did four weighings with no if/thens,. The weightings each gave a base 3 resu…

That's called IIRC an "unconditional" solution (in that later weighings don't depend on earlier weighings). David MacKay poses that a problem in his Information theory book on p. 85, and gives the solution on the next page.

http://www.inference.org.uk/itprnn/book.pdf

Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just took a stab at recreating my older solution. It goes something like this Number the balls 7 8 9 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 Then do three weighings according to rows like this: 0 1 -1 0 1 -1 1 -1 0 1 -1 0 1 1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 1 1 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Where -1 means index on left side of of balance, 0 means not on balance, 1 means on right side of balance. Note each row has the same number of -1 and 1. If…

I like how simple the deciding process becomes but I’m afraid there might be a problem. This solution works when the odd ball is always heavier, but it could either be heavier or lighter, and you don’t know which. For example, say ball 7 is heavier. From top to bottom, the weightings would result in: 120. However, if ball 19 was lighter you would obtain the same weighing sequence 120. I believe that there is another…

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Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just took a stab at recreating my older solution. It goes something like this Number the balls 7 8 9 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 Then do three weighings according to rows like this: 0 1 -1 0 1 -1 1 -1 0 1 -1 0 1 1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 1 1 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Where -1 means index on left side of of balance, 0 means not on balance, 1 means on right side of balance. Note each row has the same number of -1 and 1. If…

I like how simple the deciding process becomes but I’m afraid there might be a problem. This solution works when the odd ball is always heavier, but it could either be heavier or lighter, and you don’t know which. For example, say ball 7 is heavier. From top to bottom, the weightings would result in: 120. However, if ball 19 was lighter you would obtain the same weighing sequence 120. I believe that there is another…

You might be right. I didn't check as carefully as when I did it decades ago. This is all from memory, and the matrix above I sketched out over dinner by hand :)

The idea works. When I solved it before I cider it up to test

Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#98

I’m glade to know that “did a PhD in maths six years ago and work in applied mathematics” is now being long out of math. I see clickbaity titles are still doing fine in 2023. Impressive result however.

To be fair, results like this are very improbable to come from someone who is not a full-time mathematician. And no that does not mean someone working in machine learning or someone who did their PhD 6 years ago. How many such results do you see from someone who is not a full-time mathematician?

It is possible for someone who is not a full-time mathematician by still working on mathematics in their spare time or in a mathy-field in their day job but very very few real examples of that can be found.

So I don't find the title clickbaity. It is really really hard to come up with results like this without working on mathematics research (not AI research) 10 hours a day!

Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once made a cool solution to this problem using information theory, in particular coding theory. The usual solution uses the fact there are 3 places to put items: left scale, off scale, and right scale. Then those solutions do if/then cases to juggle items around to find the mis-weighted ball. My solution numbered the balls in base 3, then did four weighings with no if/thens,. The weightings each gave a base 3 resu…

Just took a stab at recreating my older solution. It goes something like this Number the balls 7 8 9 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 Then do three weighings according to rows like this: 0 1 -1 0 1 -1 1 -1 0 1 -1 0 1 1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 1 1 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Where -1 means index on left side of of balance, 0 means not on balance, 1 means on right side of balance. Note each row has the same number of -1 and 1. If…

Why do the balls have to be numbered starting at 7?

Re: Google researcher, long out of math, cracks devilish problem about sets

#100
post #98

I’m glade to know that “did a PhD in maths six years ago and work in applied mathematics” is now being long out of math. I see clickbaity titles are still doing fine in 2023. Impressive result however.

To be fair, results like this are very improbable to come from someone who is not a full-time mathematician. And no that does not mean someone working in machine learning or someone who did their PhD 6 years ago. How many such results do you see from someone who is not a full-time mathematician? It is possible for someone who is not a full-time mathematician by still working on mathematics in their spare time or in a…

The article also notes that other mathematicians very quickly advanced his work from 10% to 38% and wondered why he hadn't just done it himself, since it was relatively simple. He explained that his skills were rusty after being out of mathematics for six years.
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