Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#591

Post by TedShiller » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 1:07 AM UTC

plantain wrote: post #140

I really don't understand why governments around the globe just throw their hands in the air and pretend housing is an unsolvable problem for which they have no obligation to fix. It wasn't always like this - in 1922 in Australia we realised there was a shortage of 25,000 homes, so they just made it happen [1]. Why are we so impotent today? Do we just not care enough? Are the vested interests too powerful? [1] https:…

I really don't understand why people are thirsty in the desert when they don't have water. Why are they so impotent?

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#592

Post by throwaway_paris » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 1:21 AM UTC

aliqot wrote: post #523

throwaway_paris wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Paris to start a new job recently, and the housing situation sucks so much. The prices in Paris are fairly high, 1000€ for a 30m² flat. But that's the relatively small heart of "Paris intra muros", excluding the "banlieues" (suburbs) which are cheaper and 30 minutes to an hour with the Métro (or the RER). That doesn't sound more unaffordable than London, not on a tech salary and colleagues have told me co-…

> For the record, I'm an EU citizen and I have a doctorate in a tech subject. My French colleagues have shared similar rental horror stories. I have no idea how people manage who are worse off financially, or come from outside the EU. Having read all of this, I have no doubt that the experience you're relating is true, nonetheless, it makes me wonder how Paris's immigration boom is happening. When I was last there, m…

I understand your skepticism, I myself find it very hard to believe I couldn't find a place to stay in Paris.

Btw, if you're thinking of "other factors" like something dodgy about my personality, there aren't any. If there was something about me so dodgy that nobody wanted to rent to me, it would affect my ability to be employed, first. And yet I got an offer from the first startup to which I applied in Paris, so it can't be that.

Perhaps the recent immigrants you spoke with were comfortable with less ... formal? ways of renting? For example, searching for "why so hard to rent in Paris foreigner" on duckduckgo, I find this account of similar difficulties as mine:

https://howtobecomeparisian.com/2020/04/13/the-struggle-of-f...

>

I'm guessing there are many people living in similar precarious accommodation. I didn't want that, so I guess I played on hard mode to begin with. But the point is that the hard mode is hard, and I'm not playing some game, I'm just trying to rent a place to stay and work in a European capital. It shouldn't be hard.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#593

Post by throwaway_paris » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 1:23 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #530

aliqot wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the record, I'm an EU citizen and I have a doctorate in a tech subject. My French colleagues have shared similar rental horror stories. I have no idea how people manage who are worse off financially, or come from outside the EU. Having read all of this, I have no doubt that the experience you're relating is true, nonetheless, it makes me wonder how Paris's immigration boom is happening. When I was last there, m…

> it makes me wonder how Paris's immigration boom is happening [...] There is no way all of these people outrank someone with a doctorate in a tech field, statistically speaking. I'm curious what other factors are at play here. Because a lot of immigrants who come to Paris (and any other big metro areas like London, Berlin, New York, San Fran etc.) have no standards regarding housing and don't care about these issues…

That makes some sense, but from my point of view my housing situation is not ideal, either: the apartment I'm renting is half the size and twice the money of what I was renting before, although I didn't live at a capital city then.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#594

Post by throwaway_paris » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 1:36 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #524

throwaway_paris wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Paris to start a new job recently, and the housing situation sucks so much. The prices in Paris are fairly high, 1000€ for a 30m² flat. But that's the relatively small heart of "Paris intra muros", excluding the "banlieues" (suburbs) which are cheaper and 30 minutes to an hour with the Métro (or the RER). That doesn't sound more unaffordable than London, not on a tech salary and colleagues have told me co-…

I feel your pain. And you still don't realize the worst part: things are going to get far far worse thanks to the new laws regarding energy "performance". Basically, laws now mandate every flat to have good thermal isolation, otherwise you can't rent them. Which means approx 30% of the housing in Paris will be banned from the renting market in the next 3 years. It started this very year. PS: and because we're french,…

Thanks. Well, I didn't know that. I had thought, when I finally moved here, that the French would have free energy on demand like in Star Trek, what with all the nuclear stations. I guess not.

I like the French. It's true there's mad amounts of process and bureaucracy everywhere and as usual, none of it works. I don't think it's really worse than in other places, c'est seulement que les Français aiment grogner plus que les autres. C'est Français ca, grogner :)

Btw, je parle bien Français alors je me demande si sa serait pas encore pire si je cherchais un appart en Anglais. Aie.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#595

Post by philliphaydon » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 2:45 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #415

philliphaydon wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reasons we don’t have enough homes is because governments have made it illegal to build enough new homes to meet demand. > You are essentially say that the presence of car collectors leads to car shortages. The price of a old car, a new car, a cheap car, and an expensive luxuary car, all vary greatly. Cars are more or less open for purchase by everyone. Houses a fixed in a location, you cannot pick it up and mo…

Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes everything worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Thanks for cleaning up our comments so we don't lose all the discussion.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#596

Post by cvalka » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 3:32 AM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #404

I'm genuinely curious, as to why a country, any country, should not limit home purchase to residents (note I'm saying residents and not citizens). What benefit does it provide to a country or its residents if home purchase is opened to foreign residents?

Why limit to housing? What about shares of a company?

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#597

Post by notatoad » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 3:36 AM UTC

nerdbert wrote: post #194

notatoad wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't think there's too many people (or at least, people making these decisions) who think foreign ownership is the real problem here. it's just the portion of the problem that's politically easiest to tackle. banning foreign ownership will help, even if only a little bit.

However many foreigners will be punished as a result, even if their participation in the housing market was going to be in good faith and aligned with the public interest. If the actual problem is vacant units, then punish vacancy. Failing to do that is admitting that xenophobia is easier than good policy.

if you are buying houses without residing in the country, your participation in the housing market is not in good faith.

there is no good reason to buy a house you don't plan to live in.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#598

Post by cvalka » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 3:43 AM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #144

hippich wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can say the same about green card holders in the USA. Or there is some specifics that specifics between treatment of permanent residents in USA vs Canada?

> Or there is some specifics that specifics between treatment of permanent residents in USA vs Canada? This is not a topic I am super familiar with, but I believe the answer is yes. For example, in Canada, permanent residents have the right to enter the country, similar to Canadian citizens. In other words, they enter the country by right, not at the discretion of CBSA officers. This is not necessarily the case in th…

No. The Trump's ban was drafted by morons bypassing the regular rule making process. The non-application to green card holders was almost immediately enacted not because of the "protests" but for the reason of having a 0% chance withstanding a legal challenge.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#599

Post by llampx » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 9:28 AM UTC

ravendug wrote: post #533

llampx wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does temporary vs permanent status matter? Whoever is coming to Canada needs a place to live in.

My assumption is that temporary residents no longer consume housing at the end of their stay in the country so, provided the rate of growth in the number of temporary residents is low, their net consumption of the available housing stock over time would also be low. I haven’t seen the growth figures to judge. Where we stand today, the absolute number of temporary residents are consuming some percentage of housing but…

Right, what we need is a net number of temporary residents leaving subtracted from temporary residents coming in. Given that Canada's model is to encourage immigration though, it would be good to have that number.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#600

Post by throwaway_paris » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:33 AM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #571

throwaway_paris wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Paris to start a new job recently, and the housing situation sucks so much. The prices in Paris are fairly high, 1000€ for a 30m² flat. But that's the relatively small heart of "Paris intra muros", excluding the "banlieues" (suburbs) which are cheaper and 30 minutes to an hour with the Métro (or the RER). That doesn't sound more unaffordable than London, not on a tech salary and colleagues have told me co-…

It's in large part (almost entirely?) because the laws make it extremely difficult to evict a tenant. It can take a very long time, so there's a lot of pressure on the tenant to prove they're not a future liability. That's the big downside of heavy tenant protections - it goes so far, landlords take protective measures like torturing you with requirements. Sure, there is a 'shortage' of housing - but all desirable, p…

> It's in large part (almost entirely?) because the laws make it extremely difficult to evict a tenant.

I was given that explanation by at least one letting agent, but I don't believe it because I was turned down repeatedly even though I told all the agents that my employer offered to be my guarantor. That means they would have to pay rent if I didn't.

In fact, my employer is currently my guarantor, for the apartment I finally rented. My boss had to sign a contract that in the event that I stay in the house without paying rent the company will pay the rent for one year. I'm pretty sure that also includes any costs for repairs if required. That should pretty much take care of all the risk there could possibly be in renting to me. And yet, nobody would rent to me.

So the risk is not the problem. The letting agent who gave me the apartment I'm renting commented that it's just too much hassle letting to someone like me, who doesn't have all their documentation in their "dossier de locateur". It really looks like the only reason nobody wanted to let to me was that they don't give a shit whether I find a house or not and they have plenty of takers. As the French say, ils ce foutent de ma geule.