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Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

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Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#51

Post by _-david-_ »

miracle2k wrote: post #45
_-david-_ wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, we are talking about internet porn, not porn books or magazines or whatever you seem to be talking about. Secondly, you are going to have to explain the difference between a book and a gun constitutionally. If requiring an ID is disenfranchisement of a right when it comes to books then it is for guns as well.

This may contain some informative details about the constitutional analysis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchan... > First, we are talking about internet porn, not porn books or magazines or whatever you seem to be talking about. I have not, on the other hand, seen a free speech analysis hinge on the medium of delivery.

That doesn't really address my point. If it is unconstitutional to ban sales under 18 of legal material then it would be unconstitutional to ban the sale of guns to under 18 year olds as well. The Supreme Court seems to have a contradiction on this topic for different rights.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#52

Post by _-david-_ »

sterlind wrote: post #40
guywithahat wrote: post #3

As someone who started watching porn when he was 10 and wishes he hadn't, this seems like great news to me. Hopefully sites like reddit follow suit

why isn't this the parents' responsibility? parents can (or at least should be able to) block porn sites at the router. my parents set up my computer in the kitchen, where I couldn't hide the screen. that wouldn't work with mobile devices, but in the pre-smartphone world it was pretty effective. I still watched porn as a 15-yo, but I had to be careful not to get caught, and I don't regret it.

>why isn't this the parents' responsibility?

Just because it is the parents' responsibility, doesn't mean the government cannot also make laws regarding it. Would you recommend removing the laws banning 5 year olds from doing heroin just because it is a parent's responsibility?

>parents can (or at least should be able to) block porn sites at the router.

There are a few issues.

1. The average parent has no technological knowledge to be able to do this

2. Many blocks on routers use DNS blacklists. Browsers are now implementing encrypted DNS and will bypass the block.

3. Even if the blocker checks the host name, with ECH/ESNI around the corner this won't be possible soon.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#53

Post by Brybry »

ericmcer wrote: post #26
chrisco255 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pervasive government surveillance and censorship "for the children" is not great. Personally, I'd opt for teaching my kid to be the odd one out whenever it makes sense.

So if your kid is struggling to fit in and everyone at the school talks and interacts via social media, and your kid asks if he can talk to friends via social media your answer would be to tell your 13 year old developing human who is struggling that they are gonna be the odd one out. This isn't the same as installing cameras on every corner because kids are getting kidnapped, this is the same thing as saying cigaret…

Unless you watch your kid like a hawk then they'll be able to get cigarettes/drugs/alcohol as a teenager if they want to.

A significant portion of my high school population was drinking alcohol at parties and another (smaller) portion was smoking weed. My understanding from most of my friends and relatives is that their schools were the same.

In my opinion kids are far better served by being enabled to safely explore new experiences and methods on how to deal with peer pressure when they don't want to. But really that's up to each parent to decide, they should know their kids best.

18 years old as a magical line for all human beings being equally capable to decide for themselves is a bit silly, if anything 18 year old males might be at the worst time for these experiences.

If we wanted a good 'average' age to group everyone into that's based more on current understanding of biology then we'd probably want something more like 25.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#54

Post by cout »

chrisco255 wrote: post #24
_-david-_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the main thing for teens or whoever to understand is that these are actors and this is purely an entertainment production Do you think that will be the case for the majority of preteens? Maybe once you become a teenager you can better understand, but the average age of first viewing porn is before the teenage years.

I was from the first generation to experience this, by being raised on the internet in the 90s. But I guess I had to just kinda figure it out on my own. I think it's important to have external education about this from other sources, but I'm not aware of any good sources on this. A lot of religious institutions tend to rely on shame and taboo to persuade children/teens from watching porn. But I don't think that's eff…

I have a friend who chose to leave his home computers unlocked for games and such that the kids were not allowed to play during study time. The idea is that they had to learn to exercise self control or receive consequences for breaking the rules. I don't think there are any easy answers, but I like the idea of giving kids the tools they need to make beneficial choices over dictating morality only to watch them rebel when they get older.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#55

Post by _-david-_ »

Thetawaves wrote: post #48
NotPractical wrote: post #30

I think it's really important to protect children from this type of content. I'm not necessarily against these kinds of blocks but I don't think they'll be effective because there will always be extremely easy ways to bypass them (use a VPN, find a website that isn't beholden to US laws, etc etc etc). IMO the best approach is to ensure parents are technically competent and knowledgeable enough to be able to configure…

Why are you driven to control the information consumed by your children?

Surely you agree that certain content should not be consumed by children? Do you believe a 5 year old should be watching a gang bang?

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#56

Post by _-david-_ »

Brybry wrote: post #50
_-david-_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the main thing for teens or whoever to understand is that these are actors and this is purely an entertainment production Do you think that will be the case for the majority of preteens? Maybe once you become a teenager you can better understand, but the average age of first viewing porn is before the teenage years.

It could be the case for the majority of preteens. Kids are able to understand at an early age the difference between (some) fantasy and reality.[1][2] For some porn it's very obvious and for some porn it's not. I think it's certainly better if parents decide what their kids are ready for and if the kids have the resources to help answer questions (my sex ed teacher was actually really good for this). Would most pret…

>It could be the case for the majority of preteens. Kids are able to understand at an early age the difference between (some) fantasy and reality.[1][2]

>For some porn it's very obvious and for some porn it's not.

There is no way to properly distinguish between "fantasy" and "reality" porn and only restrict some porn. Unless you are going to mandate porn sites manually review every video and properly tag them.

I also think there are other issues, like many young children not even knowing what sex is when they first view porn. I'm not sure how much you can distinguish between the two when you don't even know what you are looking at.

>I think it's certainly better if parents decide what their kids are ready for and if the kids have the resources to help answer questions (my sex ed teacher was actually really good for this).

I don't believe the average parent has the capability of blocking porn if their children are not ready. If we are going to go for the parents should deal with it route, then we need something that the parent can just check a box on. As far as I know, most ISPs don't provide this functionality which leaves parents in a situation they don't know how to solve.

This assumes that parents know that this is a problem. Many parents don't realize that young kids so often access porn. The only way this could work is if the default is to block porn and you would have to request access from your ISP. Given the reaction when the UK did the same thing, I'm not sure it would be practical to do here.

>Would most preteens even be interested in porn without hormonal ex drive? Sort of like how they see people kissing and still think it's "gross".

>I know I had access to the internet fairly early, and it was hard to not accidentally stumble onto porn through searching, but I didn't start consuming porn until after I was actually a teenager.

Many kids view porn before puberty and not just a one time sort of thing so I don't think hormonal drive is causing it for many kids.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#57

Post by _-david-_ »

chrisco255 wrote: post #24
_-david-_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the main thing for teens or whoever to understand is that these are actors and this is purely an entertainment production Do you think that will be the case for the majority of preteens? Maybe once you become a teenager you can better understand, but the average age of first viewing porn is before the teenage years.

I was from the first generation to experience this, by being raised on the internet in the 90s. But I guess I had to just kinda figure it out on my own. I think it's important to have external education about this from other sources, but I'm not aware of any good sources on this. A lot of religious institutions tend to rely on shame and taboo to persuade children/teens from watching porn. But I don't think that's eff…

>I was from the first generation to experience this, by being raised on the internet in the 90s. But I guess I had to just kinda figure it out on my own.

The problem is many children cannot figure it out.

>I think it's important to have external education about this from other sources, but I'm not aware of any good sources on this.

I don't think there are many resources. The only one I am aware of is https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

I don't think just having resources will solve the problem. If that was the case then kids wouldn't do drugs.

>A lot of religious institutions tend to rely on shame and taboo to persuade children/teens from watching porn. But I don't think that's effective either, shame and suppression can cause other issues.

I'm not sold that shame and taboo can't work. In the past, prior to internet porn, you would have to go to a theater or buy a magazine or video. Many people who had the urges didn't because they didn't want to be caught due to the shame and taboo nature of the material.

Due to the widespread accessibility and use by the population there is no longer shame or a taboo nature to it for many people. I saw some study a while back that said around 90% of men in the US watch porn at least once a month. I don't know the veracity of the study and I couldn't find it when I looked, but even if it is only half of that, you can't really enforce taboos and shame with only half of the population.

Also, since most kids view porn there also wouldn't be any shame and taboo in their peer group.

>I think even outside of porn it's important to understand this about all forms of media, that most of it is thin and largely fake. Media addiction and letting it affect your perception of reality is a general problem, especially today in the on-demand era.

I fully agree. I'm not sure if a law like this is the best way to deal with this addiction, but I have to give them credit for trying.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#58

Post by miracle2k »

_-david-_ wrote: post #51
miracle2k wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may contain some informative details about the constitutional analysis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchan... > First, we are talking about internet porn, not porn books or magazines or whatever you seem to be talking about. I have not, on the other hand, seen a free speech analysis hinge on the medium of delivery.

That doesn't really address my point. If it is unconstitutional to ban sales under 18 of legal material then it would be unconstitutional to ban the sale of guns to under 18 year olds as well. The Supreme Court seems to have a contradiction on this topic for different rights.

> If it is unconstitutional to ban sales under 18 of legal material then it would be unconstitutional to ban the sale of guns to under 18 year olds as well.

Why should it be neat like this? For guns, the court might look at the second amendment, its purpose role and intention, contrast those with the dangers of guns in the hands of children, and scope out the limits to the second amendment.

For speech, the court would do this analysis for the first amendment, and the outcome might be different, maybe also depending on the type of speech in question.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#59

Post by Brybry »

_-david-_ wrote: post #56
Brybry wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be the case for the majority of preteens. Kids are able to understand at an early age the difference between (some) fantasy and reality.[1][2] For some porn it's very obvious and for some porn it's not. I think it's certainly better if parents decide what their kids are ready for and if the kids have the resources to help answer questions (my sex ed teacher was actually really good for this). Would most pret…

>It could be the case for the majority of preteens. Kids are able to understand at an early age the difference between (some) fantasy and reality.[1][2] >For some porn it's very obvious and for some porn it's not. There is no way to properly distinguish between "fantasy" and "reality" porn and only restrict some porn. Unless you are going to mandate porn sites manually review every video and properly tag them. I also…

> I don't believe the average parent has the capability of blocking porn

The average parent has the capability to block porn because blocking porn can be simply done with controlling internet device access.

It's similar to how parents block porn when it is in books or Playboy magazines or VHS tapes or TV. Parents restrict access to their property that contains porn.

If someone's kids are at an age where they don't want them possibly viewing porn then they can limit their kids to devices with parental controls that allow strict app/site whitelists (ex. Amazon Kindle Fire tablets and iPads) or only allow device access during a supervised time (what my parents did with TV).

If parents are letting their children stay up all night on phones and tablets then I guess it's a problem but the same thing would be true if parents 30 years ago didn't lock up their Playboy magazines or VHS tapes or parental lock their TV.

> This assumes that parents know that this is a problem

Most millennials who have kids and had internet access previously in their life likely experienced the atmosphere of troll content like meatspin and goatse that was 90s/00s internet with AIM and IRC and filesharing and search engines before filters.

I find it hard to believe parents today don't know the internet has far worse than porn sites.

Re: Louisiana now requires a government ID to access Pornhub

#60

Post by cvalka »

LinuxBender wrote: post #47
ParksNet wrote: post #29

I fear this will be a stalking horse for full digital identity, and eventually squashing all anonymous speech. The best solution here would be to force all adult sites to require a minimum monthly payment from a credit card. Blocks underage users and helps tackle addiction.

I agree it could be a stalking horse as things often are. Can't just boil the frogs. On the other hand I do not agree that people should require credit cards. For ages there has been a single line HTTP header that can be added to a site or even to the meta-data in HTML itself to identify adult content. A law could require all user-content sites to implement the header and require all browser apps, operating systems,…

1. Your idea compelling the websites to provide the header will survive the 1st amendment scrutiny. I support this. 2. Your idea compelling the client software to respect the header will probably not survive the 1st amendment and is not really needed. Google/Apple will ship this functionality on their own. 3. Seizing domains is not universal. How will you seize an .am or .su domain? 4. One more anti porn idea to throw some meat to the evangelical base - remove copyright protection for porn. 1. Constitutional 2. Does not restrict freedom of speech 3. Removes incentives to produce new "professional" porn
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