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Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

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Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#111

Post by yarg »

Selfish, combative, and manipulative - are you confusing us with sociopaths?

I don't see disagreeable people as more selfish, just less willing to compromise on what they think are bad ideas.

Combative? Not quite, we're talking disagreeability, not aggressiveness (a better word would just be disagreeable, but then you'd have no need to call us selfish and manipulative).

Manipulative? Go fuck yourself. Why would I try to trick you into doing what I want, when I can tell you that you're wrong and ignore you instead?

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#112

Post by beyond_based »

yarg wrote: post #111

Selfish, combative, and manipulative - are you confusing us with sociopaths? I don't see disagreeable people as more selfish, just less willing to compromise on what they think are bad ideas. Combative? Not quite, we're talking disagreeability, not aggressiveness (a better word would just be disagreeable, but then you'd have no need to call us selfish and manipulative). Manipulative? Go fuck yourself. Why would I try…

[flagged]

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#113

Post by kyleyeats »

civilized wrote: post #110
kyleyeats wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great insights. Curious about your result on my personality test: https://eristicstest.com/ Disagreeable people often have an over-the-top people-pleaser side because they're bad at agreeability . For them it's usually a choice of being a doormat or a jerk. When people are bad at agreeability in this way, but still agreeable, nobody is in a rush to correct them. Nobody threatens to quit over the doormat. But it's the…

I got The Fixer. Very interesting test. I'm kind of impressed/mystified at how it got so much information about me from those questions. Like Myers-Briggs but seemingly both more ambitious theoretically and using fewer questions. I wonder how it would fare under psychometric validation (as I understand MBTI doesn't fare well despite being so popular and so many people including me finding insight there). Re: agreeabi…

Thanks! Yeah the test is super creepy. You can email me if you have questions (see profile).

The "disgust" in your result (I have one too) is what's rare in tech and mostly what I'm talking about here. The Fixer is holding the entire industry together, from where I'm sitting, and the only archetype I ever 'click' with (I'm fear/disgust/pride, so we both have that instant inner critical voice). They are really good at the disgust -> prosocial process you mention. My archetype is... way worse at that.

Re: Skill. Yeah it's both, agreed. A role for virtue too.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#114

Post by pixelrevision »

routerl wrote: post #7
thenerdhead wrote: post #6

> If disagreeableness does not help individuals attain power, why do so many people believe that nice guys (and gals) finish last? Given our studies focused on the attainment of power, does disagreeableness help people maintain power once they possess it? This study seems like common sense. Extroverted people who are agreeable climb the fastest. People confuse disagreeable with “asshole”. Most assholes can be agreeab…

Let's take it a step further: agreeable people don't care about good engineering. They can't, by definition. Standing up for an idea or principle makes one disagreeable. An engineer who is just "going with the flow" is not bringing any expertise to the table. To be clear, there are limits to how much and when one should stand-up for an idea or principle (i.e. pick your battles). Someone who fights every battle is, on…

Some of the best engineers I’ve ever worked were just “going with the flow”. They certainly brought tons to the table. Some people are just quiet and don’t like conflict. If you ask them what they think plus give them a calm environment, time and support you can find yourself looking at some very elegant easy to maintain systems.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#115

Post by HWR_14 »

kyleyeats wrote: post #108
HWR_14 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't quite get the Big Five personality trait. It's poorly labelled, I'll grant. But "disagreeable (big five sense)" and "disagreeing with people" have no correlation I am aware of. I am also not aware of any studies showing that disagreeable people are more likely to voice their disagreements in a group setting. > Would you similarly discriminate against anxious people? As a bomb-disposal tech? Yes. As a cashie…

You're crazy not to take the anxious bomb-disposal guys.

Why?

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#116

Post by mdcds »

talentedcoin wrote: post #71
kyleyeats wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not jerks. We're people who notice problems. You're shooting the messenger. Every problem that tech has comes from treating disagreeable people as pariahs. Organizational bloat and tech debt are still issues even when we're not there. Avoid hiring disagreeable people and you'll arrive at the stereotypical tech org that can't get anything done. If you don't have disagreeable people to solve your issues, you have…

Strong disagree. It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable, and I personally find it frustrating when people excuse their behaviour in the manner you are doing. Yes work sucks, but being unpleasant, cynical and snarky just makes it even worse. Roll up your sleeves and help or please get out of the way.

> It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable,

-1 for strawman

disagreeing with someone and raking high on Disagreeableness BigFive trait are two different things

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#117

Post by crtified »

kyleyeats wrote: post #68
derbOac wrote: post #28

This is interesting because it counters the idea that someone has to be a jerk to get ahead. However I'm also not sure the study really examined the idea too well, and ended up feeling like it's the sort of thing that could be misinterpreted and overleveraged. In my personal experience (which is limited) there's a certain constellation of organizational characteristics that leads to disagreeable individuals attaining…

We're not jerks. We're people who notice problems. You're shooting the messenger. Every problem that tech has comes from treating disagreeable people as pariahs. Organizational bloat and tech debt are still issues even when we're not there. Avoid hiring disagreeable people and you'll arrive at the stereotypical tech org that can't get anything done. If you don't have disagreeable people to solve your issues, you have…

Tech workplaces hold no special claim to conformity.

It's not uncommon for big old professions and specialities to have institutes and charters which include compulsory precepts along the lines of "thou shalt not publicly disagree with or badmouth thy fellow".

There, agreeing-to-agree is foundationally baked in; the very professions are sustained around the continual churning out of cookie-cutter journeymen, with intergenerational progress carefully, hierarchically regulated such that the profession all steps forward together.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#118

Post by ath3nd »

kyleyeats wrote: post #113
civilized wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got The Fixer. Very interesting test. I'm kind of impressed/mystified at how it got so much information about me from those questions. Like Myers-Briggs but seemingly both more ambitious theoretically and using fewer questions. I wonder how it would fare under psychometric validation (as I understand MBTI doesn't fare well despite being so popular and so many people including me finding insight there). Re: agreeabi…

Thanks! Yeah the test is super creepy. You can email me if you have questions (see profile). The "disgust" in your result (I have one too) is what's rare in tech and mostly what I'm talking about here. The Fixer is holding the entire industry together, from where I'm sitting, and the only archetype I ever 'click' with (I'm fear/disgust/pride, so we both have that instant inner critical voice). They are really good at…

It was really lots of fun!

Eerily, from so few questions, it got so many things things right about both me (The Wizard) and my wife (The Duelist).

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#120

Post by kyleyeats »

ath3nd wrote: post #118
kyleyeats wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Yeah the test is super creepy. You can email me if you have questions (see profile). The "disgust" in your result (I have one too) is what's rare in tech and mostly what I'm talking about here. The Fixer is holding the entire industry together, from where I'm sitting, and the only archetype I ever 'click' with (I'm fear/disgust/pride, so we both have that instant inner critical voice). They are really good at…

It was really lots of fun! Eerily, from so few questions, it got so many things things right about both me (The Wizard) and my wife (The Duelist).

Thank you. That's a great pairing.
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