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The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

thomasprosser.substack.com

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Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#11

Post by bediger4000 »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #6
tharne wrote: post #4

The sad part of all of this is that the folks pushing the polarization in the U.S., the Trumpy right, and the progressive left, represent an extreme minority of the population. If either of these two groups had an any level of self awareness, they'd realize that no one wants them around.

You can't really say "no one" when Trump won the 2016 election and nearly won the 2020 election. You should probably check your assertions.

In neither case did he get even a simple majority of the votes. He won/almost won due to a quirky US presidential system that overrepresents small population states.

That fact supports the "no one" generalization.

Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#12

Post by tharne »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #6
tharne wrote: post #4

The sad part of all of this is that the folks pushing the polarization in the U.S., the Trumpy right, and the progressive left, represent an extreme minority of the population. If either of these two groups had an any level of self awareness, they'd realize that no one wants them around.

You can't really say "no one" when Trump won the 2016 election and nearly won the 2020 election. You should probably check your assertions.

When you have two choices in a polarized country, one of them is going to win and the other is going to "almost win". That's what makes this situation so ugly.

Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#14

Post by rayiner »

A lot of well meaning people are seriously damaging the country by injecting politics into spheres that the public broadly needs to perceive as “neutral” such as law and medicine. This is usually accompanied by efforts to reframe contentious policy debates as “non-political.” Which of course makes no sense because lots of things that aren’t political in the abstract quickly become political when it comes to people advancing specific remedies or ways of restructuring society.

Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#15

Post by mcphage »

> When public firework displays take positions on controversial issues, they provoke partisan reactions, poisoning debate further and turning aggrieved groups away from public spaces.

Is support for Ukraine a controversial issue in the UK? In the US, support for Ukraine is pretty widespread.

Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#16

Post by tharne »

convolvatron wrote: post #10
tharne wrote: post #4

The sad part of all of this is that the folks pushing the polarization in the U.S., the Trumpy right, and the progressive left, represent an extreme minority of the population. If either of these two groups had an any level of self awareness, they'd realize that no one wants them around.

since every issue apparently has two quite defined and non-overlapping 'sides', what is a moderate? someone who chooses Ala-carte?

A moderate has more to do with a mindset and epistemological stance than it does with specific views. A moderate, regardless of where they stand on a particular issue, will ask themselves "What if I'm wrong?", or "Wow this issue is very complicated, I'm not 100% certain on the answer".

Extremists, by contrast, tend to be absolutely certain of whatever opinion they happen to hold at the moment and nothing can shake them of that. There has been a lot written about the alleged differences between the conservative mind and the liberal mind, but I think that completely misses it. Extremists, even those on opposite ends of the political spectrum, have a lot more in common with one another than they do with moderates and other normal people.

Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#17

Post by Guthur »

1attice wrote: post #7

As a member of one of the minorities whose rights campaigns Prosser cites as ruining his footie, I'll say, apropos nothing, that it's much easier to talk about these issues with detached neutrality when you & your friends are not subject to monotonically increasing levels of stochastic domestic terrorism.

Sounds like you need to get new friends.

We are all dealing with crap, we are all at the bottom of the pile getting the dregs from trickle down economic theory.

It's not about one tiny fringe group, when we fight only for ever more specific fringe groups we ignore the injustice we are all subjected to.

Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#18

Post by kevinventullo »

bediger4000 wrote: post #11
nathanaldensr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't really say "no one" when Trump won the 2016 election and nearly won the 2020 election. You should probably check your assertions.

In neither case did he get even a simple majority of the votes. He won/almost won due to a quirky US presidential system that overrepresents small population states. That fact supports the "no one" generalization.

Ok, but it’s not like he got 10% of the vote. In my mind, there isn’t that big of a difference between say 45% and 55% when drawing conclusions about society.

Still, I’m not sure I would consider everyone who voted for Trump as part of the “Trumpy right” any more than I would consider myself part of the radical left just because I voted for Biden.

Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy

#19

Post by hausen »

The original title is "The extension of political conflict is corroding liberal democracy," which better reflects the opinion in the article.

The editorialized title ("the politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy") frankly doesn't do the article any justice.

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