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The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

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Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#81

Post by burnished »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #75
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have issues with my appetite. I eat a lot. So my fix was to exercise a lot. Which worked out fine. But now my hip has a pretty severe issue causing me to go from ~1,500+ calories per day burn to about half. Add to that the fact that I sleep worse due to pain... So my appetite is even worse, as I eat to compensate the lack of energy because of my bad sleep. I want these meds, if only until I've had my surgery and ha…

Why do we accept it for alcohol but not for food? If someone could invent a drug for avoiding alcohol consumption, why wouldn’t an alcoholic use it?

Because abstaining from food will eventually lead to starvation and death.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#82

Post by CadmiumYellow »

cptcobalt wrote: post #69
pknomad wrote: post #49

Disclaimer - I'm just a mere biochem grad who've taken some grad level courses in physiology so my question is coming from curiosity and healthy dose of ignorance. I took a cursory glance at the wiki page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirzepatide ) and it seems like it's working wonders on weight loss by targeting satiety. Weight loss still occurs when calorie out exceeds calorie input so it's not fundamentally cha…

This is a regressive opinion. If we have tools available that can solve problems—as humans are not perfect—then why not use them? Do you not enjoy the benefits of other medicine that solves problems you have, like susceptibility to Covid? We should always be on the conquest to improve our livelihoods. If that means introducing a drug to combat obesity so that scores of people can extend their lifespans by being healt…

I don't think this is regressive. He's suggesting that people will gain the weight back when they go off of the drug and their appetite returns, which is a legitimate concern given that we don't know if it's safe for people to take this drug long term because it hasn't been around all that long.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#83

Post by savanaly »

pknomad wrote: post #49

Disclaimer - I'm just a mere biochem grad who've taken some grad level courses in physiology so my question is coming from curiosity and healthy dose of ignorance. I took a cursory glance at the wiki page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirzepatide ) and it seems like it's working wonders on weight loss by targeting satiety. Weight loss still occurs when calorie out exceeds calorie input so it's not fundamentally cha…

>Should we be concerned about needing drugs to treat obesity?

This comment of yours made me think of this comment from another article about another obesity drug I read recently:

"The history of medicine includes the following story many times: there’s some condition that doctors recommend lifestyle changes for. Then an exciting new medication comes out that treats the condition effectively. Over a generation or so, doctors go from demanding the lifestyle change, to gesturing at the lifestyle change before prescribing the medication, to mostly just prescribing the medication. We saw this with cholesterol and statins, with hypertension and ACE inhibitors, with depression and SSRIs. You can form your own opinion on whether this is good or bad, but we’re probably in the very beginning of this process with obesity. Opinions will be all over the map for a while before the inevitable pharma company victory makes everyone agree that semaglutide is first-line therapy."

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/semaglutidonomics

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#84

Post by asdff »

refurb wrote: post #67
asdff wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many. For one the government can now collectively bargain for better prices. They can also subsidize the drug such that its available for everyone who needs it, not just those who have great insurance or who can afford to pay entirely out of pocket. Keeping your working population healthy has massive second order effects on the economy, it would be an investment paying for medical care. Where does this money come fro…

If the government is making the drugs how do they bargain for a price? And if the inefficiency of the government in terms of defense spending is any indication, I’m sure we’d be getting way less for our money than we currently do.

Most analysis of single payer versus the status quo suggest we'd all be saving money hand over fist. Sure the government is not the most efficient, but private companies are often even more inefficient unless you are a shareholder and your metrics for efficiency are profit versus the wellbeing of your customers.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#85

Post by MerelyMortal »

e1g wrote: post #63
simfree wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the coupon make it cost $25, or just reduce the cost by $25? Any other specifics on this would be super helpful!

I’m seeing one of the doctors quoted in the article and they say nobody knows what’s going on with pricing or what will happen next year when the drug gets approved. The coupon is from the manufacturer and brought the total cost to $25 out of pocket. However, in Oct the rules changed and now there is lots of confusion about eligibility and costs. Most pharmacies refuse to deal with this at all, and last week I paid $…

At let's say a 10 pound per month weight loss, that means losing 100 pounds would only cost $5,000. I know it doesn't quite work that way, but $500/month sounds a lot, but $5,000/100lb sounds like a bargain.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#86

Post by heavyset_go »

heavyset_go wrote: post #40
Maxious wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Adderall increases the level of serotonin in your body, which can cause your appetite to decrease, leading to weight loss. This can be a good thing if you are trying to lose weight, but it can also cause stomach pain.

Adderall and other stimulants activate the chemoreceptor trigger zone in the brain and that can mediate feelings of hunger, nausea, trigger vomiting etc.

To add to this, stimulants can release dopamine or even bind to dopamine receptors in parts of the brain responsible for emesis, which the CTZ is part of.

Adderall might lead to downstream raising of serotonin levels, but the drug itself doesn't act on serotonin and I'd be genuinely surprised if the emesis symptoms it can cause were mediated by serotonin and not the dopamine it acts on.

Drugs that block dopamine receptors in the CTZ, like compazine, are regularly prescribed as antiemetics.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#87

Post by pknomad »

damascus wrote: post #70
pknomad wrote: post #49

Disclaimer - I'm just a mere biochem grad who've taken some grad level courses in physiology so my question is coming from curiosity and healthy dose of ignorance. I took a cursory glance at the wiki page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirzepatide ) and it seems like it's working wonders on weight loss by targeting satiety. Weight loss still occurs when calorie out exceeds calorie input so it's not fundamentally cha…

> patients who lose weight this way still needs this drug to keep it off. Purely anecdotal N=1 but I was also 285 at one point in my life and went through an intensive weight loss program through my work and lost about 60 lbs in 3 months. That was about 15 years ago. Since then I've done several 3 day fasts and many weeks of One Meal A Day. I think that program showed me experientially what its like to go without as…

You're totally right! Just to add on for the overeating - I think it's easier to overeat in the states due to just larger portions and prevalence of processed foods which often contain sugar and fat, thus leading to higher calorie intake.

Food was very much a comfort thing so I would stress-eat during exams, stressful jobs and so forth.

The other thing I noticed is that I got less hungry(!?) when I ate less after like fasting for 2 weeks. It seems to me that eating less after getting over the initial hump was key for my weight loss.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#88

Post by JamesBarney »

asdff wrote: post #84
refurb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government is making the drugs how do they bargain for a price? And if the inefficiency of the government in terms of defense spending is any indication, I’m sure we’d be getting way less for our money than we currently do.

Most analysis of single payer versus the status quo suggest we'd all be saving money hand over fist. Sure the government is not the most efficient, but private companies are often even more inefficient unless you are a shareholder and your metrics for efficiency are profit versus the wellbeing of your customers.

Single payer systems are not more efficient at producing drugs, they just pay less for drugs by virtue of being a monopsony buyer.

If we had a single payer system we would pay less for drugs, but we'd also have less drugs. This is probably a good tradeoff in the short term, and a bad one in the long run.

If you get a disease today that has a significantly better prognosis than 20 years ago, what's the most likely reason? Better drugs. What is only 10% of our healthcare expenses, drugs. I don't think we should be so quick to cut funding to a sliver of healthcare expenses that is driving 90% of the progress.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#89

Post by ilikecakeandpie »

Eumenes wrote: post #74
barbariangrunge wrote: post #10

1100-1500/month is pretty brutal. It’s a bit of a middle finger pointed at lower income people

Running shoes cost about $50-$100 for a decent pair and last for many months

1) Decent running shoes cost more than that and it's a prohibitive spend for lower income people.

2) This is an extreme oversimplification of the problem and feels to be made in bad faith.

Re: The FDA will likely approve the diabetes drug tirzepatide for weight loss

#90

Post by Eumenes »

ilikecakeandpie wrote: post #89
Eumenes wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running shoes cost about $50-$100 for a decent pair and last for many months

1) Decent running shoes cost more than that and it's a prohibitive spend for lower income people. 2) This is an extreme oversimplification of the problem and feels to be made in bad faith.

I'd never consider exercise gear, esp running shoes to be 'prohibitive spend for lower income people', taking care of your health is probably some of the best money you can spend ... and you can most certainly buy quality running shoes for around $100. Here are some high quality trail runners for around 100, some under: https://www.saucony.com/en/saucony-peregrine/
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