Many of the disagreeable personalities I dealt with over the years were that way to co-workers and direct reports. They were completely different when dealing with their superiors. They did well because of that, even when employee opinion surveys (if they were managers) were factored in.
Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
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Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#42"being disagreeable-that is, behaving in aggressive, selfish, and manipulative ways" - am I the only one finding this definition incorrect? I think a disagreeable person is one not willing to accept an opinion they find incorrect. None of the attributes they listed seem relevant :) Or maybe I'm just being disagreeable
Agreeableness/disagreeableness have specific meanings in personality psychology. Agreeableness in the five-factor model (Big Five) doesn't necessarily mean being overly compliant; it can also mean being trustful or altruistic (trust and altruism being two facets of agreeableness). The study uses five-factor terminology with participants completing the Big Five Inventory (BFI) and some also completing the NEO-PI-R, so…
And according to their source on the term, https://personality-project.org/revelle/syllabi/classreading... , this isnt the definition.
On page 113 we find the following most associated with low-aggreableness:
> Fault-finding, cold, unfriendly, quarrelsome
And with high-aggre,
> Sympathetic, Kind, appreciative, affectionate
Now I do not read either as having to do with the picture of "selfish, combative, and manipulative".
I find the agreeable kind of manipulativeness, ie., the "Jerry-kind" (from Rick & Morty) just as egregious as the "Rick-kind".
What might equally be said of this study is that "agreeable methods of manipulation" are as effective as "disagreeable ones" in aggregate.
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#43Can confirm, told a prospective to sleep with me for the job.
Not only did I not get promoted, I got fired. AMA
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#44My gut instinct is that it will not be an advantage in any kind of knowledge work, because you need ICs to do deep work with enough agency to make the right local decisions. Even if you are very smart, dictating based on an abstract high-level vantage will quickly hit a wall.
That said, I think historically disagreeable types had a bigger advantage because the world was simpler and a lot of times just having the courage of your convictions and appearing strong would be enough to rally people behind you. There's probably quite a bit of latent psychological tendencies in the populace that still allow that to work in some circumstances, but in the modern corporate world, especially tech, you'll get your lunch eaten if you can't get the best out of smart people.
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#45The key point here is buried: > [Disagreeable people] engaged in more dominant-aggressive behavior, which positively predicted attaining higher power, but also engaged in less communal and generous behavior, which predicted attaining less power The one thing I've observed disproportionately among sr execs: they're charismatic & collaborative right up until your interests diverge - and then they're ruthless. Some disa…
Could this be described as being skilled at picking your battles?
That's a related skill, but not the same thing. It's more that once they think "this is a battle," they win. They may just dominate in the meeting if they need to, but they also might just shmooze with your skip-level manager.
Think of Tom Brady - he's a charismatic guy, but if you're on his team and slack off, he'll get you cut without a second thought.
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#46This is interesting because it counters the idea that someone has to be a jerk to get ahead. However I'm also not sure the study really examined the idea too well, and ended up feeling like it's the sort of thing that could be misinterpreted and overleveraged. In my personal experience (which is limited) there's a certain constellation of organizational characteristics that leads to disagreeable individuals attaining…
The most powerful people seem to do shady and aggressive things but always keep a professional and calm composure on the outside, no matter what. (Think of politicians who have remained in power for a long time) As maybe an interesting business example, Elon has begun to shed the calm outward composure more and more over the last 5 years and has lost more wealth than anyone in history at the same time. Maybe that is…
Yes. People at the top have a natural affinity for power. They intuitively understand power, they feel it, and they don’t feel any shame about seeking and wielding power.
These are the type of people we’ve chosen to reward in society and unfortunately most people have drunk the kool-aid and have been convinced that these people deserve to be rewarded. And even further, they think society can’t function unless we reward these people!
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#47The key point here is buried: > [Disagreeable people] engaged in more dominant-aggressive behavior, which positively predicted attaining higher power, but also engaged in less communal and generous behavior, which predicted attaining less power The one thing I've observed disproportionately among sr execs: they're charismatic & collaborative right up until your interests diverge - and then they're ruthless. Some disa…
Could this be described as being skilled at picking your battles?
Seeing the office as a warzone which will, if you knife enough enemies (in the front or back - it doesnt matter), eventually be conquered in your favour and the spoils going to the you the victor ... is the real skill.
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#48Many of the disagreeable personalities I dealt with over the years were that way to co-workers and direct reports. They were completely different when dealing with their superiors. They did well because of that, even when employee opinion surveys (if they were managers) were factored in.
I had same experience. The people doing good act much differently based on who you are.
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#49Can confirm, told a prospective to sleep with me for the job. Not only did I not get promoted, I got fired. AMA
You did it wrong, if you wanted a promotion you should have offered up not down
Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)
#50Many of the disagreeable personalities I dealt with over the years were that way to co-workers and direct reports. They were completely different when dealing with their superiors. They did well because of that, even when employee opinion surveys (if they were managers) were factored in.
That is also a big flaw in the study. Personality is very much dependent on context. So they measured disagreeability (1) as part of their extra-credit course work, and (2) as a follow-up. To really get into the work environment, either one has to do ethnographic field work, or make assumptions about disagreeability based on other factors.