Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 131 posts

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#31

Post by brushfoot »

kachurovskiy wrote: post #18

"being disagreeable-that is, behaving in aggressive, selfish, and manipulative ways" - am I the only one finding this definition incorrect? I think a disagreeable person is one not willing to accept an opinion they find incorrect. None of the attributes they listed seem relevant :) Or maybe I'm just being disagreeable

Agreeableness/disagreeableness have specific meanings in personality psychology.

Agreeableness in the five-factor model (Big Five) doesn't necessarily mean being overly compliant; it can also mean being trustful or altruistic (trust and altruism being two facets of agreeableness).

The study uses five-factor terminology with participants completing the Big Five Inventory (BFI) and some also completing the NEO-PI-R, so those are the definitions to keep in mind here.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#32

Post by azangru »

solumunus wrote: post #29
azangru wrote: post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

> possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson Here's where you're going wrong.

He taught clinical psychology at a university; whatever his shortcomings, he should have a grasp on the fundamentals.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#33

Post by kyle_martin1 »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #23
azangru wrote: post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

I guess Jordan Peterson, which I consider a master of nonsense, has to go through the dictionary again. The Oxford Languages definition of disagreeable is: - upleasant or unenjoyable - unfriendly and bad tempered At least the first definition fits well with Jordan I believe. Maybe this is his guilty conscience trying to give meaning to the fact that he is fundamentally disagreeable?

[dead]

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#34

Post by brushfoot »

azangru wrote: post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

In personality psychology, factors like agreeableness are umbrellas over often very different subfactors called facets.

Facets of agreeableness include altruism and compliance, which are two very different things. Someone may be altruistic while also breaking the rules. Someone else may be compliant but stingy. But both could score high in agreeableness.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#35

Post by bkirkby »

twelve40 wrote: post #20
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let's take it a step further: agreeable people don't care about good engineering. They can't, by definition. this sounds like another way of saying there is ever only one right way of doing something? If on the other hand you believe that engineering is about tradeoffs, then being agreeable might be a willingness to work out what tradeoffs to make.

exactly, seems like a big oversimplification. I'm "agreeable" at work, as in, let's see if you are correct about your way, and if not, we'll correct it based on the data. Rarely there is a predictable binary decision about how to build stuff, at least in software.

I use the "safe enough to try" test. If I can't convince my coworker or employee that my idea has better tradeoffs (using my 30+ years of experience), I'm humble enough to know that maybe I'm wrong. I then ask myself the question "is what they are proposing safe enough to try?" If the answer is yes, then they will do their work their way and we'll learn something. They will learn the old guy might know a thing or two or I'll learn that new things come along all the time.

Either way, we are better off for it.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#36

Post by curiousllama »

The key point here is buried:

> [Disagreeable people] engaged in more dominant-aggressive behavior, which positively predicted attaining higher power, but also engaged in less communal and generous behavior, which predicted attaining less power

The one thing I've observed disproportionately among sr execs: they're charismatic & collaborative right up until your interests diverge - and then they're ruthless. Some disagreeable personality traits _are_ actually important - they're just insufficient.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#37

Post by prettyStandard »

kachurovskiy wrote: post #18

"being disagreeable-that is, behaving in aggressive, selfish, and manipulative ways" - am I the only one finding this definition incorrect? I think a disagreeable person is one not willing to accept an opinion they find incorrect. None of the attributes they listed seem relevant :) Or maybe I'm just being disagreeable

"How quickly you are to agree or disagree" has been my interpretation of the big five definition.

You have to average it over self-assessments and also the assessment of all your friends, family, and coworkers.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#38

Post by jackmott42 »

derbOac wrote: post #28

This is interesting because it counters the idea that someone has to be a jerk to get ahead. However I'm also not sure the study really examined the idea too well, and ended up feeling like it's the sort of thing that could be misinterpreted and overleveraged. In my personal experience (which is limited) there's a certain constellation of organizational characteristics that leads to disagreeable individuals attaining…

The most powerful people seem to do shady and aggressive things but always keep a professional and calm composure on the outside, no matter what. (Think of politicians who have remained in power for a long time)

As maybe an interesting business example, Elon has begun to shed the calm outward composure more and more over the last 5 years and has lost more wealth than anyone in history at the same time. Maybe that is coincidental but one wonders.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#39

Post by jackmott42 »

curiousllama wrote: post #36

The key point here is buried: > [Disagreeable people] engaged in more dominant-aggressive behavior, which positively predicted attaining higher power, but also engaged in less communal and generous behavior, which predicted attaining less power The one thing I've observed disproportionately among sr execs: they're charismatic & collaborative right up until your interests diverge - and then they're ruthless. Some disa…

Could this be described as being skilled at picking your battles?

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#40

Post by the_gipsy »

derbOac wrote: post #28

This is interesting because it counters the idea that someone has to be a jerk to get ahead. However I'm also not sure the study really examined the idea too well, and ended up feeling like it's the sort of thing that could be misinterpreted and overleveraged. In my personal experience (which is limited) there's a certain constellation of organizational characteristics that leads to disagreeable individuals attaining…

Sociopathy is the way to attaining power in organizations. "Disagreeable personality" doesn't allow for much manipulation.
Post reply on HN