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Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

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Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#111
I have two cynical thoughts after reading this:

- Imagine a world where the value add people got together and horse traded our managers around.

- How realistic even is the “programmer celebrity” anymore? It seems like the “this is the guy” (e.g. one of the best browser guys) happens less anymore. Are there people out there now that are the crème de la crème of k8s configurators? Top class QUIC implementers? Number one ad-tech hackers? It just seems that the things we used to lionize our star developers for were a lot easier to get excited about. It was like we were making a better new world. Now I just feel like a paving stone in a surveillance economy.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#112
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that almost always the case in a class action suit?

I always felt like it was but apparently there is a real chance of me seeing several hundred dollars over buying the horrible 2018 mac air. Nothing close to the 1800 I shelled out for it which I could never recoup.

I just got an $80 check in the mail over a class action regarding the dishwasher (appliance) I had a few years back that broke long before what should have been it’s usable life. Roughly $1000 to replace it. $80 class action settlement.

Class actions are a crappy way of extracting the actual cost or damages done by a corporation and then getting those damages into tha hands of people that were on the shit side of the stick in the transactions.

But no, I have no grand answer for how to do it any better either.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#113
post #74

I have links to this entire saga bookmarked and send them out whenever someone complains about software engineers being overpaid and entitled. At the end of the day they are still the labor class, and just like in any other industry it's the executives/investors/shareholders at these large companies who are enjoying most of the benefits of their work. Even after the poaching lawsuit and settlement practices like non-…

Do you mind sharing these links here?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was an average person. Average people tend to at least care about their own children. Jobs treated his own appallingly badly.

You'd be surprised

50+% of parents are bad? I don’t believe that.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#116
>anyhow, i told him we were not building a browser and that to my knowledge we were not systematically going after the safari team in particular. and that we should talk about various opportunities. i also said i would follow up and check on our recruiting strategies wrt apple and safari. he seemed soothed.

This reminded me of the scene in "The Pirates of Silicon Valley" where Bill Gates reassured Steve that he was not building an operating system and Steve was soothed, only to be extremely enraged later when he found out it was all a lie.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#117
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the civil case it's true that only the lawyers made anything worth having.

Isn’t that almost always the case in a class action suit?

Yes - lawsuits have tremendous overhead, and class actions average out everything.

In this case, it would have been hard to recover more overall as a class in a finite period of time - the values were calculated based on each individuals wages and expected earnings lost at various levels or something like that (it's been a while, sorry).

The judge initially rejected the first settlement (which was 320 million i believe), and considered the final one to be much more reasonable (450 million or something).

This was in front of Judge Koh, who is no slouch and has dealt with lots of complex tech litigation. She is also not viewed as "industry-friendly" in any way, shape, or form (look at the fight over her appointment to the 9th circuit for more details)

If they fought it out in front of a jury, taken it through appeals, etc it would have taken 7-10 years to finalize it, for a max expected improvement of probably 3-5x.

That probably would not be worth it to most people, so settlement seems reasonable.

A particularly injured person may have been able to make out better in arbitration or something, but as a class, no.

This kind of very large, complex case is also just incredibly expensive to litigate.

Instead of looking at the plaintiff side, i'll look at the defendant side (since you don't have to deal with arguing about what reasonable profit margins are). This is just the cost of litigation itself.

The average litigation cost for "major companies" - 50 of the fortune 200's, was 150 million a year each in 2010. It was doubling every 5 years or less before that (it was 60 million in 2005).

It's at least doubled since then. This isn't just tech companies.

On average, "major" (again, fortune X00) corporations in the US spend 0.3% of their revenue on litigation costs. So your 100 billion revenue a year tech company is probably spending 300+ million in litigation costs.

A suit like this is a very large portion of those costs.

The plaintiff lawyers in this particular case were also very good, well regarded complex antitrust lawsuit lawyers. Not the typical "file a thousand class action lawsuits against everything" type firms that you see.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#119
post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

[flagged]

Could you please stop posting ideological battle comments to HN? They're tedious and not what this site is for, regardless of which flavor you favor.

This is not a comment on the topic at hand—I'm just noticing that you've been posting a lot like this lately, and it's been a problem for a long while as well. You're clearly using HN primarily for ideological battle, and are way over the line at which we ban accounts—see https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... for past explanations. I don't want to ban you, because you've also posted good things, but if you keep doing this we're going to have to.

Curious conversation and ideological battle are incompatible. Therefore we have to pick one. We pick curious conversation.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this email's aim is to suppress market wages. you're mythologizing and neglecting the market-wide knock-on effects of rampant illegal wage theft collusion like this.

It doesn't appear to be. The email's intention appears to be accusing Google of poaching browser developers to build a competing browser to Safari. It's less about price and more about Apple changing their strategy if they conclude that a company they think is a partner has designs on competing directly with one of their key application offerings. Which, of course, they eventually did. If anything, I take this email…

> It's less about price and more about Apple changing their strategy if they conclude that a company they think is a partner has designs on competing directly with one of their key application offerings.

Interesting that this pivots from an antitrust problem related to employers to an antitrust problem related to the browser market. Artificially binding negotiations of one market to another to prevent competition is bad too.

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