Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#101

Post by ygggvbbjiuygvf » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:36 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #74

I have links to this entire saga bookmarked and send them out whenever someone complains about software engineers being overpaid and entitled. At the end of the day they are still the labor class, and just like in any other industry it's the executives/investors/shareholders at these large companies who are enjoying most of the benefits of their work. Even after the poaching lawsuit and settlement practices like non-…

What is stopping super duper browser guy from launching his own browser with his own company, reaping all the rewards himself? I really don’t understand your attitude at all.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#102

Post by UIUC_06 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:37 AM UTC

Rather than think of REDACTED as "labor" it might be more helpful to think of him as a star NBA player. The term "labor" applies more to the players in the D-league.

If you're Steve Ballmer and you want Giannis Antetokounmpo on your team, you can't just call him and offer more money. They have regulations around that.

So it shouldn't be surprising that Jobs & Brin have conversations about REDACTED. If it was an engineer with one year experience working under REDACTED, it wouldn't escalate to that level, at least until Google hired five of them.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#103

Post by Thorrez » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:38 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

>I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey?

That could wind up in a bidding war that could end up affecting many employees and salaries going up a lot. That's a lot of lost money for Apple, which makes Steve Jobs mad. Additionally, some employees would still be lost in the war, slowing down Apple development.

>Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

I think it's implied that the employee wouldn't find out. I think Steve Jobs would be more angry if Google revoked the offer and blamed it on Steve Jobs than if Google went forward with the offer.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#104

Post by googlryas » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:39 AM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #58

ActorNightly wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not that funny to the engineer in question, and Im willing to bet that Jobs didn't once approach him and offer him more money to stay.

I wouldn't make that bet. Jobs played favorites and I believe he was known to amply reward his favorites.

Would he reward a favorite who was just about to jump ship before he got the offer rescinded?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#105

Post by rib3ye » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:39 AM UTC

wahnfrieden wrote: post #69

pm90 wrote: post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

[flagged]

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Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#106

Post by trog » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:39 AM UTC

ygggvbbjiuygvf wrote: post #101

paxys wrote: post #74

I have links to this entire saga bookmarked and send them out whenever someone complains about software engineers being overpaid and entitled. At the end of the day they are still the labor class, and just like in any other industry it's the executives/investors/shareholders at these large companies who are enjoying most of the benefits of their work. Even after the poaching lawsuit and settlement practices like non-…

What is stopping super duper browser guy from launching his own browser with his own company, reaping all the rewards himself? I really don’t understand your attitude at all.

Why not just start a company competing with Apple, Microsoft and Google, you're saying?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#107

Post by ineedasername » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:40 AM UTC

>”So a compromise would be to continue with the offer we have made (to [REDACTED]) but not to make offers to any of the others unless they get permission from Apple.”*

This is just so absolutely shitty behavior. It’s bamazing they were willing to talk about it so openly in email format. You get to be so great at your job only to risk being blackballed by hush hush non compete handshake agreements? Unions don’t go nearly far enough to balance out this power asymmetry. I don’t know what would. Honestly I don’t know what could without knock on effects with their own awful potentials to hamper competition and innovation. Hugely punitive repercussions when this sort of things comes to light might be a step in the right direction though.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#108

Post by ethbr0 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:41 AM UTC

ygggvbbjiuygvf wrote: post #101

paxys wrote: post #74

I have links to this entire saga bookmarked and send them out whenever someone complains about software engineers being overpaid and entitled. At the end of the day they are still the labor class, and just like in any other industry it's the executives/investors/shareholders at these large companies who are enjoying most of the benefits of their work. Even after the poaching lawsuit and settlement practices like non-…

What is stopping super duper browser guy from launching his own browser with his own company, reaping all the rewards himself? I really don’t understand your attitude at all.

A few hundred million dollars and an unrelated side business that continually spits out cash.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#109

Post by Barrin92 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:42 AM UTC

ygggvbbjiuygvf wrote: post #101

paxys wrote: post #74

I have links to this entire saga bookmarked and send them out whenever someone complains about software engineers being overpaid and entitled. At the end of the day they are still the labor class, and just like in any other industry it's the executives/investors/shareholders at these large companies who are enjoying most of the benefits of their work. Even after the poaching lawsuit and settlement practices like non-…

What is stopping super duper browser guy from launching his own browser with his own company, reaping all the rewards himself? I really don’t understand your attitude at all.

Did you notice the part where Sergey Brin was intimated by Steve Jobs in the email threatening him with war if he starts a browser? Probably that part.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#110

Post by avidiax » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 5:42 AM UTC

ygggvbbjiuygvf wrote: post #101

paxys wrote: post #74

I have links to this entire saga bookmarked and send them out whenever someone complains about software engineers being overpaid and entitled. At the end of the day they are still the labor class, and just like in any other industry it's the executives/investors/shareholders at these large companies who are enjoying most of the benefits of their work. Even after the poaching lawsuit and settlement practices like non-…

What is stopping super duper browser guy from launching his own browser with his own company, reaping all the rewards himself? I really don’t understand your attitude at all.

Are there any independent browser companies? What's the business model? Nobody will pay for a browser. If you work in this area, you need a well funded patron that sees a browser as strategic.

A browser is strategic, hence Steve Jobs getting pissed.

Starting your own company also requires specialist and generalist skills that a browser engineer doesn't have, and exposes him to risk that won't be worth it to a rock star developer.