Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#281

Post by mistermann » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:11 AM UTC

fatbird wrote: post #185

mavelikara wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was asking about the rich people in his county, who don't currently live in the mountain town.

In Canada, the vast majority of rich foreigners buying property are American. Chinese investors, the favourite villain of the "rich foreigners" class, make up only about 4% of foreign real estate investment.

It is not known how many transactions are conducted via proxy buyers, the Canadian government does not allow public access to the data that is required to determine what is actually going on in their country. Thus, the imagination steps in and fills in the gaps.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#282

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:15 AM UTC

Negitivefrags wrote: post #219

plantain wrote: post #140

I really don't understand why governments around the globe just throw their hands in the air and pretend housing is an unsolvable problem for which they have no obligation to fix. It wasn't always like this - in 1922 in Australia we realised there was a shortage of 25,000 homes, so they just made it happen [1]. Why are we so impotent today? Do we just not care enough? Are the vested interests too powerful? [1] https:…

There seems to be a general lack of political will for big projects in the west. Looking at Asia now is like what the west used to be like. I am unsure about the cause but I suspect that a lot of it is that people seem a lot more worried about consultation with locals and such. In the past the government might just decide “we are building a highway here” or “we are building all this infrastructure for houses there” a…

> Looking at Asia now is like what the west used to be like.

There is a huge property bubble in China, so I'm not sure if that is good example for us to follow. Japan is a better model, where a declining population and weariness of a huge real estate bubble that popped in the late 80s has made investing property not very feasible.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#283

Post by LarryMullins » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:15 AM UTC

screye wrote: post #212

I don't blame Canada. The country is running out of space really fast and they lack the technology to build more than 1 floor of house. Unlike massive countries like South Korea, they can't fit 50 million people. Can you imagine being forced to live in slum like conditions without a half-acre yard or at least 3 parking spots? We are a developed country, do you expect us to park on the streets like the 3rd world ? If…

> The country is running out of space really fast

I get what you're saying, but it's kinda funny since Canada is enormous and most of it is mostly empty.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#284

Post by dionidium » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:15 AM UTC

Negitivefrags wrote: post #219

plantain wrote: post #140

I really don't understand why governments around the globe just throw their hands in the air and pretend housing is an unsolvable problem for which they have no obligation to fix. It wasn't always like this - in 1922 in Australia we realised there was a shortage of 25,000 homes, so they just made it happen [1]. Why are we so impotent today? Do we just not care enough? Are the vested interests too powerful? [1] https:…

There seems to be a general lack of political will for big projects in the west. Looking at Asia now is like what the west used to be like. I am unsure about the cause but I suspect that a lot of it is that people seem a lot more worried about consultation with locals and such. In the past the government might just decide “we are building a highway here” or “we are building all this infrastructure for houses there” a…

> There seems to be a general lack of political will for big projects in the west.

The spectacular thing about the housing crisis is that you don't even need any big government projects. It just needs to be legal for private actors to build housing. On most plots of land today it is not legal to build anything but a single-family home, so cities are no longer able to naturally densify over time (just like every single modern city did 100 years ago, so that they could become the cities they are today).

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#285

Post by stoppingin » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:15 AM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #249

stoppingin wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea is pure fantasy. This condition of classifying people as NIMBYs if they disagree with you on this topic is incredibly toxic. There are a plethora of totally valid reasons why people would be opposed to endless urban sprawl, consolidation, and population growth.

How does someone oppose population growth? That’s a literal question. What public policy do you endorse that has the ability to significantly reduce the number of people being born? If you don’t have one you’re just opposed to building enough houses for the people we have.

> How does someone oppose population growth?

In the case of the western world, what population growth? The amount of couples in the first-world having children has slowed to a trickle in the last few decades. This seems to have spooked governments in the western world into enacting policies to encourage immigration, ostensibly to prevent a decline in economic growth coinciding with a shrinking population. The only place where the birth rate is actually increasing is Africa.

My personal theory (which people are free to disagree with) is that the decline in birth rate in the first-world is a reaction to overpopulation. Although I acknowledge that extrapolation from this example is risky, we know that some animals lose their desire to breed when population density increases, and in captivity. Is it so strange that humans could be similar?

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#286

Post by andreareina » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:15 AM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #261

plantain wrote: post #140

I really don't understand why governments around the globe just throw their hands in the air and pretend housing is an unsolvable problem for which they have no obligation to fix. It wasn't always like this - in 1922 in Australia we realised there was a shortage of 25,000 homes, so they just made it happen [1]. Why are we so impotent today? Do we just not care enough? Are the vested interests too powerful? [1] https:…

Because today houses are not for living in. They are investments. There's multiple issues that need solving now. 1) Being able to purchase a house without ever setting foot in the country. NZ decided to stop foreigners buying houses. There were websites you can go in and people from China would buy houses without ever setting foot in NZ... The buying power of alot of people from China and India is huge. This drives u…

In Singapore HDB flats are still being used for investment and my generation (30s) and younger are still feeling the pinch. IMO there’s (at least) one part missing to the BTO sauce: you got a government subsidy, you don’t get to sell on the open market. I don’t know what the alternative is, whether it’s selling back to the government (adjusted for inflation and depreciation somehow) or what, but currently there’s a significant cash transfer from the government to people who won the BTO ballot lottery, just ten years later.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#287

Post by dionidium » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:16 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #282

Negitivefrags wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a general lack of political will for big projects in the west. Looking at Asia now is like what the west used to be like. I am unsure about the cause but I suspect that a lot of it is that people seem a lot more worried about consultation with locals and such. In the past the government might just decide “we are building a highway here” or “we are building all this infrastructure for houses there” a…

> Looking at Asia now is like what the west used to be like. There is a huge property bubble in China, so I'm not sure if that is good example for us to follow. Japan is a better model, where a declining population and weariness of a huge real estate bubble that popped in the late 80s has made investing property not very feasible.

Property "bubbles" only matter when housing is scarce and therefore treated as an investment. We all understand why the recent run-up in used car prices was bad for most people, even if it meant that the people who owned a car enjoyed a sudden spike in the value of that "asset." We don't want the things we buy to be more expensive. We want them to be less expensive. Falling prices are good.

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#288

Post by fragmede » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:16 AM UTC

nerdbert wrote: post #188

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One good rule of thumb is that whenever people are blaming foreigners for their problems, they're wrong. Another good rule of thumb is to not dismiss issues just because they don't fit an over-generalized idea of how all situations must work. The housing situation in Canada is weird . I visited a friend who lived in a high rise and barely saw anyone else come and go from the building the entire week I was there. Fr…

Sounds like the actual problem is people buying homes and leaving them empty. Foreigners are just a correlate. Going after foreigners for this is like banning men from all bars in Canada because of the high correlation between date-rape drug usage and being a man.

Which, Toronto has a vacancy tax, so that's not an unexplored direction.

https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/property-taxes-util...

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#289

Post by themitigating » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:17 AM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #263

Negitivefrags wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a general lack of political will for big projects in the west. Looking at Asia now is like what the west used to be like. I am unsure about the cause but I suspect that a lot of it is that people seem a lot more worried about consultation with locals and such. In the past the government might just decide “we are building a highway here” or “we are building all this infrastructure for houses there” a…

Decades ago when the West was developed, there was very little value placed on the existing stuff. Five people died constructing the Empire State building. Do you imagine the uproar if that happens today? I bet human life was valued much less back then. Similarly, lots of neighborhoods were erased to make way for highways, railroads and industrial plants. Nowadays, try constructing an industrial plant in a major city…

Of course all cities should strive to be like Houston, a city surrounded and intersected by highways.

The lower part of Manhattan would have had a highway through it but instead it'sa cultural epicenter

(https://untappedcities.com/2013/09/11/nyc-that-never-was-rob...)

Re: Canada bans most foreigners from buying homes

#290

Post by christofosho » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 1:18 AM UTC

josho wrote: post #276

philliphaydon wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because today houses are not for living in. They are investments. There's multiple issues that need solving now. 1) Being able to purchase a house without ever setting foot in the country. NZ decided to stop foreigners buying houses. There were websites you can go in and people from China would buy houses without ever setting foot in NZ... The buying power of alot of people from China and India is huge. This drives u…

I don’t necessarily see a problem with point 2. Renting a house often creates supply. The owner will create a basement suite or a nanny suite over the garage. If housing shortage was solved then that also kills the profit motive of renting out all but the most ideal houses for renting. The root cause in Canada is the neoliberal policy that started in the 90s that ended government building low income housing. They lef…

Is this meant to argue against a limit on the quantity of properties that one individual can own? If corporations were not permitted to own property, and other individuals were allowed only two properties (what real need would there be for more), the quantity of available property for purchase would skyrocket. The prices would plummet, and far more people would be capable of owning their home.

I don't disagree that there is disincentive for developers to build mid-level properties. They want huge expensive homes or the ability to cram many people into one space. I think this is a problem, but is not the only reason for the lack of availability, as described by the grandparent and in my former paragraph.