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Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

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11–20 of 78 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

#11
post #8

Oh you sweet child, you haven't seen complexity until you have deployed J2EE services generated using WSDL, running in an OSGi container, interfaced with EJBs packaged using Ant and deployed into GlassFish, integrated with IIS running on a Windows Server. Try finding a starter kit for that.

I did Java EE, Glassfish, JSF/IceFaces for my first job and at the same time I could have ftp'd a PHP/Perl script on a free host and called it a day (had I known better).

I think Devops has a played a huge role in why things have gotten more complicated. They want Kubernetes to be the solution to all problems. Heroku has fallen out of fashion for literally no reason. They won't even consider ElasticBeanstalk or App runner for even the smallest of projects. Companies would rather hire a 200k plus benefits person instead of paying a few hundred dollars more a month on hosted solutions. I've honestly never seen anything like it.

Re: Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

#12
post #8

Oh you sweet child, you haven't seen complexity until you have deployed J2EE services generated using WSDL, running in an OSGi container, interfaced with EJBs packaged using Ant and deployed into GlassFish, integrated with IIS running on a Windows Server. Try finding a starter kit for that.

The frontend answer to complexity had to do with young/new devs fomo’ing into resume driven development and augmenting their growing identity/ego as a developer.

But this Java shit, that has to all come from enterprise solutions right? I can’t imagine there were tons of influencer-like blog posts that JavaScript had. What hell hole did those Java ideas even come from?

Blah. One way or another, people manage to fuck everything up. We just can’t have nice things.

Re: Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

#15
BE is simultaneously easier than ever and harder than ever. The "new" complexity in the BE is stuff that has always been there. However, in the past, the infrastructure required so much manual work that it was handled completely independently from the BE.

Now, I can write a BE, configure a Dockerfile, and deploy to a server nearly anywhere in the world without leaving my chair.

Re: Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

#17
I don't think it has. We just have a fashion trend where people love to brag about managing 100 micro-services using Kubernetes. But there's still companies out there where the entire back-end is a single binary on a single beefy server, potentially with a hot spare server running alongside it.

Re: Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

#18
sarbanes oxley, other reporting requirements. As systems become faster, companies need to save more data. Where I work, we need to be able to reproduce finance reports created years ago using the original data. Doing that makes things far more complex.

When I started out decades ago, systems were far less complex.

Note, the IRS is our best friend. Without them, most of us would be doing something else (if we are very lucky).

Re: Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

#19
The scope of back-end development has grown considerably. In fact, it's precisely "one level of indirection" bigger: "commit is the new save", "push is the new commit", and "repo is the new module". Plus, "full-stack development" now includes containers and orchestration! Which is, of course, insane: distributed systems are, in general, not well understood. Expecting people to understand front-end, back-end, and then just tacking on an academically challenging area is beyond foolish.

I strongly believe that we're now at the limit of human cognitive ability (as evidenced by the tight, and tightening, employment market) and we human programmers are painting ourselves into a complexity corner and we will weep when our employers happily hire the only minds capable of dealing with mechanical complexity, artificial ones.

Re: Ask HN: Why did back-end development explode in complexity?

#20

Backend development? Have you seen what SRE/DevOps people have to deal with? People literally use hundreds of different tools for no reason at all.

> People literally use hundreds of different tools for no reason at all.

Slightly Disagree. Resume driven development (RDD) is a thing.

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