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How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

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Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#161

Post by hajile »

petepete wrote: post #123
adql wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you're UI designer and designed the UIs launched it and all works... what else you're going to do ? Same disease that plagues GNOME, change shit for sake of changing shit, fuck users that got used to the old way, they don't matter, is new way faster ? Who knows, we don't.

It's funny how the huge silent majority get on just fine with GNOME but the vocal few act like the devs have poked them in the eye and called their mother fat.

As I recall, the UI designers didn't even ask for feedback. It was a case of "we know what you want better than you do". That design approach is basically always a mistake.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#163

Post by teekert »

Though I indeed experience this in Windows, in macOS I feel the same about buttons, especially when you mix in an external keyboard (I have a Logitech MX keys). It's always a mistery when and how home/end work (does nothing in terminal, it's page down/up in some apps, in Word it's like Windows), when cmd-arrows do home/end (not in terminal [annoying that ctrl-a/e are the only ways!], does work in FireFox), what button gives me ~ (shown on 2 buttons on the MX keys) and when I can paste with crtl-v (ok, yeah I shouldn't but if you switch OS a lot... strangely it sometimes works).

Oh and three finger down-swipe is undo on iOS! Very handy! Just not always, more like sometimes.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#164

Post by bayindirh »

adql wrote: post #108
wadd1e wrote: post #11

I have a bit of a perfectionistic tendency to 'start over' things over and over and do them again as perfectly as possible; the Windows side of MS feels like a corporate embodiment of this habit. They've done this sort of thing with app installers(setup.exe, click once, appv, msi, msix) and UI frameworks(win32, mfc, wpf, winui 2, winui 3). It's like the teams responsible for their respective product keep starting ove…

Well, if you're UI designer and designed the UIs launched it and all works... what else you're going to do ? Same disease that plagues GNOME, change shit for sake of changing shit, fuck users that got used to the old way, they don't matter, is new way faster ? Who knows, we don't.

> change shit for sake of changing shit...

While I'm a die-hard KDE user, I like how GNOME experiments with new ways of evolving the desktop paradigm and workflow attached to that.

Yes, they remove a lot of settings, and have a binary format for storing settings (and I don't like these design decisions), but it looks that they're becoming a very good DE for non-technical Linux user.

If any Linux desktop environment had 5% of this inconsistency, they would be battered to hell and back. Today, thanks to efforts of KDE and GNOME, even Qt and GTK apps can be rendered almost identically.

One might not like the direction of a particular DE, but I think we can agree that they're putting a lot of work towards a better, more usable desktop experience (and, I had my fair share of 3rd degree burns during GNOME3's teething as a developer).

AFAIK, GNOME 2.0 and KDE 3.5.x is still maintained as independent, different projects now, too.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#165

Post by SrZorro »

fulltimeloser wrote: post #38
mihaaly wrote: post #3

I am still looking forward for the option to ungroup task bar buttons, preferably with titles. Again! Something that was there before, worked, and was useful. But some designer decided we don't need that, to the bin with it!

I miss the vertical task bar option. Vertical space is more valuable than horizontal with 16x9 higher aspect ratio.

Im not updating to windows 10+ until they bring it back.

I have 3 16x9 monitors.

Why do I have to use 16*3 width of my screen for the taskbar when 1 vertical taskbar in 1 screen is enough?

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#166

Post by NGRhodes »

alentred wrote: post #30

To be fair, I think some examples, and specifically those from 95/NT and then 3.1 times, are too far-fetched. I agree that consistency is important, but it doesn't mean that every screen needs to be redesigned altogether. For instance, I don't think that examples of Screen Saver Settings or File Properties are relevant, as long as their styling is in line with the rest of the OS. One thing that surprises me a lot, th…

> For instance, I don't think that examples of Screen Saver Settings or File Properties are relevant, as long as their styling is in line with the rest of the OS.

The only styling in common is most of the window colours match the selected theme.

The window decoration style, layout, font sizes, iconography, buttons are all artifacts of older MS Windows and do not match the modern Win 11 design language.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#167

Post by masklinn »

Someone1234 wrote: post #76
alentred wrote: post #30

To be fair, I think some examples, and specifically those from 95/NT and then 3.1 times, are too far-fetched. I agree that consistency is important, but it doesn't mean that every screen needs to be redesigned altogether. For instance, I don't think that examples of Screen Saver Settings or File Properties are relevant, as long as their styling is in line with the rest of the OS. One thing that surprises me a lot, th…

I agree, but I do want to point out that some of these "not updated" things are still heavily used and offer a bad user experience. For example the Services (or any mmc based) UI with no filter/search integrated is absurd. Heck they just "redesigned" Task Manager and none of the tabs have filter/search functionality which is annoying to say the least. I suppose you can start typing with the inner tab having focus, an…

> I agree, but I do want to point out that some of these "not updated" things are still heavily used and offer a bad user experience.

I still remember the day I found out the envvar configuration screen had been updated, and finally:

* could be resized so you could see more than 4 envvars at a time, and had a scrollbar taller than 5mm to scroll through the list

* could be resized so you could actually see the entire envvar value without having to slowly move the cursor rightwards or copy it to notepad

* added a bespoke list editor for PATH so you wouldn't forget the separator or paste the new path at entirely the wrong location half the time

At that moment the sun started shining brighter. God was the old dialog unusable shit.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#168

Post by input_sh »

zokier wrote: post #148
input_sh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was promised 10 would be the final version Funny thing is this was absolutely never said by Microsoft. If you dig deep enough you reach a single throwaway quote by some employee that said something along the lines of "Windows 10 is the last version released and we're focusing all attention to it, not 8.1".

Except MS did confirm that statement separately when asked > When I reached out to Microsoft about Nixon's comments, the company didn't dismiss them at all. " Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers," says a Microsoft spokesperson…

There's a couple of ways I'd interpret that non-answer, but I absolutely don't see that as a confirmation.

"I don't know the answer, but I have to say something." Or "The answer's no, but this rumour goes in our favour of convincing people to switch to 10 so we're not going to deny it."

If it said "Windows 10 will remain up-to-date indefinitely", then I'd agree.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#169

Post by ss48 »

adql wrote: post #108
wadd1e wrote: post #11

I have a bit of a perfectionistic tendency to 'start over' things over and over and do them again as perfectly as possible; the Windows side of MS feels like a corporate embodiment of this habit. They've done this sort of thing with app installers(setup.exe, click once, appv, msi, msix) and UI frameworks(win32, mfc, wpf, winui 2, winui 3). It's like the teams responsible for their respective product keep starting ove…

Well, if you're UI designer and designed the UIs launched it and all works... what else you're going to do ? Same disease that plagues GNOME, change shit for sake of changing shit, fuck users that got used to the old way, they don't matter, is new way faster ? Who knows, we don't.

GNOME3 was released in 2011, and around then, KDE did the same major overhall. I haven't seen too many major changes in the overall approach to the UI either has taken since then. Probably the most dramatic was the GTK4 update, which took quite a while.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#170

Post by bayindirh »

hajile wrote: post #161
petepete wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how the huge silent majority get on just fine with GNOME but the vocal few act like the devs have poked them in the eye and called their mother fat.

As I recall, the UI designers didn't even ask for feedback. It was a case of "we know what you want better than you do". That design approach is basically always a mistake.

Well, yes, but if most people who is going to give feedback are tech-inclined Linux people and your aim is to build something which can be used by anyone at the end?

Your initial design might land somewhere very wrong, but starting to ask for feedback from that point on will lead you better since it's wrong for everyone, no?

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