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Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

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Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#51

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

FYI there is a new category of tire called "all weather", which have the little mountain-snowflake symbol used for snow tires. They're basically all-seasons rated for snow. I haven't seen a comparison against pure snow tires, but they do perform much better than all-seasons in snow.

Here's one comparison:

https://toptirereview.com/michelin-x-ice-snow-vs-michelin-cr...

In this test, the CrossClimate all seasons were within 10% of the snow performance of the X-Ice snow tires.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#53
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snow tires are great but they really don't help with ice. The only reliable ice traction in my experience are tire chains or studs.

They do help even on ice compared to all seasons or summer tires: https://youtu.be/GlYEMH10Z4s?t=39 . Studs definitely are better on ice, but cause issues on dry pavement and may be illegal to use depending on the state and time of year.

I wish we'd charge a tax here in WA for people using studs. They're legal for part of the year but I see taxis and other cars rocking them all winter in Seattle tearing up the road, you can hear them coming. We get maybe a week of stud worthy traffic a year. This is not folks going up the mountains to ski. But they tear up the road something fierce.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#54

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

Snow tires are great but they really don't help with ice. The only reliable ice traction in my experience are tire chains or studs.

I don't think that is backed up by data. If you switch from regular summer tyres to good winter tyres, the braking distance on ice from 40 km/h decreases from 105 metres to 52 metres (or 65 metres on shittier European winter tyres). Switching to studded tyres would then decrease it to 33 metres.

https://www.rengas24.com/images/breaking-distance/breaking-d...

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#55

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

> I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice

All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action. Quite the opposite really - many people have experienced how with 4x4 you don't get a warning before you just lose your grip and off the road you go. For the record I'm driving a 4x4, but using summer tires in the winter, with or without engaging 4x4, the car will simply be like Bambi on the ice. Going downhill would mean that I wouldn't stop before hitting something or ending up in the sea. 4x4 doesn't matter for that.

The first thing I do when getting a new car (I always by second hand cars - not that I buy them often, but I'm old enough to have gone through a few) is to buy the best possible summer and winter tires I can get, particularly the latter. That goes before any other investment in the car. I had enough of bad tires when I was very young and without any money.

EditAdd: Many people comment about ice and studded tires. Yes, studded tires are better, not just on ice, but on many kinds of packed snow conditions as well. For some conditions they are the only good option (interestingly enough, this does not always mean that they're better than studless tires on all kinds of ice - it depends on the ice). However, if there's a lot of bare asphalt around, as is often the case when there's a lot of traffic, then studs aren't particularly popular (road wear etc), and in some countries in Europe with lots of bare roads in the winter they're illegal (e.g. Germany IIRC).

As for winter tires without studs, on ice, be aware that there are great differences between brands and types. My father's car had stud-less winter tires while my car had studded tires, and I drove both cars on the same roads and his car behaved well, even on ice or "glassy" snow. But then the tires got old and he replaced with brand new tires, but a different type - much newer, so should be better, right? Not so. Very different to drive. Dangerous I would say, and in fact he got into an accident because of that. I checked that place with my own car afterwards, and no doubt his old tires would have held up just fine.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#58
post #55

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

> I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action. Quite the opposite really - many people have experienced how with 4x4 you don't get a warning before you just lose your grip and off the road you go. For the record I'm driving a 4x4,…

AWD != 4x4. AWD + traction control absolutely helps driving on snow and ice with appropriate tyres.

If you are driving with summer tyres on ice, then of course you are going to be skittering all over the place.

When going downhill on ice, again your tyres are going to make ALL the difference. You shouldnt be trying to stop going downhill on ice anyway. You should be descending at a constant and controlled speed.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#59
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action. Quite the opposite really - many people have experienced how with 4x4 you don't get a warning before you just lose your grip and off the road you go. For the record I'm driving a 4x4,…

AWD != 4x4. AWD + traction control absolutely helps driving on snow and ice with appropriate tyres. If you are driving with summer tyres on ice, then of course you are going to be skittering all over the place. When going downhill on ice, again your tyres are going to make ALL the difference. You shouldnt be trying to stop going downhill on ice anyway. You should be descending at a constant and controlled speed.

I think "AWD" today is used to mean "anything that isn't 2WD". So whether it's a full time 4x4 or something that is mostly-fwd-but-rwd-when-slipping or something else isn't part of the nomenclature. It simply means "something more than 2WD at least some of the time". There has been an endless debate as to whether 4WD or AWD are the same or different, whether only "symmetric" or "full time" counts as one or the other. But these days with hybrid drives, traction control shifting drive front/back etc., it's just too complex to keep apart any more.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#60

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

I never understood the opposition to good winter tires. Apart from the chore of shifting, and the added investment of an extra set of rims (usually), the cost of the tires isn't any larger over the long term. You wear two sets of tires interchangably so they last longer.
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