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Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

health.harvard.edu

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Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#141

Post by peoplefromibiza »

jaclaz wrote: post #140
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I strongly doubt that "modern" thermometers are in practice more accurate than good ol' mercury ones. they are not more accurate per se, the reading and calibration is. many cheap thermometer were printed with the temperature lines out of scale or shifted. they are also safer to use, it wasn't uncommon that the old ones broke while using them. Imagine the danger of a glass tube filled with mercury breaki…

>they are also safer to use, it wasn't uncommon that the old ones broke while using them. >Imagine the danger of a glass tube filled with mercury breaking while measuring the temperature anally or from the mouth. Oww, comeon, they are of course safer, but it is not like "it wasn't uncommon". It was (and is for the - still largely glass made - gallium ones) an extremely rare occurence that a termometer broke while in…

Please consider the fact that the World is larger than the USA and that we were talking about Italy and specifically I was talking about thermometers breaking in hospitals in Italy - a work place I've been acquainted with for 4 decades -, not about lead poisoning.

Please also consider the fact that Italy is in the EU, EU made those kinds of thermometers illegal in the Union with the directive 2007/51/EC [1] that was ratified in Italy by the decree n. 245 on 18.10.2008 which basically made it illegal to sell measuring instruments containing mercury since April 3rd 2009. Mercury is considered toxic waste in EU.

[1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A...

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#142

Post by jaclaz »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #141
jaclaz wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they are also safer to use, it wasn't uncommon that the old ones broke while using them. >Imagine the danger of a glass tube filled with mercury breaking while measuring the temperature anally or from the mouth. Oww, comeon, they are of course safer, but it is not like "it wasn't uncommon". It was (and is for the - still largely glass made - gallium ones) an extremely rare occurence that a termometer broke while in…

Please consider the fact that the World is larger than the USA and that we were talking about Italy and specifically I was talking about thermometers breaking in hospitals in Italy - a work place I've been acquainted with for 4 decades -, not about lead poisoning. Please also consider the fact that Italy is in the EU, EU made those kinds of thermometers illegal in the Union with the directive 2007/51/EC [1] that was…

I don't get it.

Surely they were made illegal by the EU directive and the following Italian decree.

That doesn't mean that people in Italian hospitals having thermometers break in the mouth (or other orifices) was "not uncommon" (possibly we use different definitions for not uncommon).

Unless - of course - you can recall many cases in your 40 years of acquaintenance with hospitals in Italy.

Let's say that a hospital has 100 beds and average stay is one week, that should be in the ballpark of at least 52x100x2 (temperature checks) = 10,000 measurements per year x 40 years around 400,000 uses of thermometers (possibly many more).

How many of these accidents can you remember roughly (1, 10, 100, 1000)?

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#143

Post by WelcomeShorty »

kqr wrote: post #100
kqr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't always care to this accuracy. We just used the anal temperature and went on with our day. Then we got the ear canal thermometer for convenience and discovered that the result was not what we expected, so I got curious and started keeping detailed records... But in the end, I want to get to the point where you are, using a rough rule of thumb. I'm just taking the evidence-based route there!

Hah! I just now realised the English word is "rectal" not "anal" but it seems my comment influenced plenty of other people to use the wrong word too!

I learned that from the move Madagascar :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ8m2UqIgrE

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#144

Post by peoplefromibiza »

jaclaz wrote: post #142
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please consider the fact that the World is larger than the USA and that we were talking about Italy and specifically I was talking about thermometers breaking in hospitals in Italy - a work place I've been acquainted with for 4 decades -, not about lead poisoning. Please also consider the fact that Italy is in the EU, EU made those kinds of thermometers illegal in the Union with the directive 2007/51/EC [1] that was…

I don't get it. Surely they were made illegal by the EU directive and the following Italian decree. That doesn't mean that people in Italian hospitals having thermometers break in the mouth (or other orifices) was "not uncommon" (possibly we use different definitions for not uncommon). Unless - of course - you can recall many cases in your 40 years of acquaintenance with hospitals in Italy. Let's say that a hospital…

> That doesn't mean that people in Italian hospitals having thermometers break in the mouth (or other orifices) was "not uncommon"

As I've said, I'm familiar with the specificity of Italian hospitals, and I'm saying to you it was not uncommon.

Does not mean very often, it means "something every person working in healthcare has been trained for, because it happens (happened) more often than you might think".

Especially if you think about the fact that I've already specified that they simply broke, not that "they broke in people's mouth" all the times.

> Let's say that a hospital has 100 beds and average stay is one week

Let's say that the average Italian hospital in big cities has hundreds of beds, at the times of the ban on mercury Rome had ~6 beds every 1,000 residents, US had 2.7 of them.

Let's also add that in Italian hospitals you don't pay for the bed.

My mom stayed in hospital for 6 months when she had tuberculosis.

Many of the patients in the same ward staid on average for a year.

> 10,000 measurements per year

That's per week here, probably more than that.

The hospital where my parents worked has > 1 thousand beds and > 5 thousands employees.

Not counting the ER and daily scheduled examinations.

And it's not the biggest one.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#145

Post by jaclaz »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144
jaclaz wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Surely they were made illegal by the EU directive and the following Italian decree. That doesn't mean that people in Italian hospitals having thermometers break in the mouth (or other orifices) was "not uncommon" (possibly we use different definitions for not uncommon). Unless - of course - you can recall many cases in your 40 years of acquaintenance with hospitals in Italy. Let's say that a hospital…

> That doesn't mean that people in Italian hospitals having thermometers break in the mouth (or other orifices) was "not uncommon" As I've said, I'm familiar with the specificity of Italian hospitals, and I'm saying to you it was not uncommon. Does not mean very often, it means "something every person working in healthcare has been trained for, because it happens (happened) more often than you might think". Especiall…

>That's per week here, probably more than that.

Good, so in a week, or 10,000 thermometers uses, how many broke, on average?

1, 10 or 100?

And we are talking only of those that you prompted to imagine the danger of:

>Imagine the danger of a glass tube filled with mercury breaking while measuring the temperature anally or from the mouth.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#146

Post by joecool1029 »

sideshowb wrote: post #79
joecool1029 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mercury is dangerous as hell but if it wasn't for gallium alloy ones I'd smuggle them in the country. It's elemental mercury encapsulated in glass not one of the organic compounds that cause all the acute and longterm health issues. Chlorine bleach is scarier stuff used in the household.

What should we know about bleach?

Drink elemental mercury and you'll be fine, it'll just pass through and you'll shit it out.

Drink bleach and it'll probably kill you or at least give you terrible injuries.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#147

Post by sideshowb »

joecool1029 wrote: post #146
sideshowb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should we know about bleach?

Drink elemental mercury and you'll be fine, it'll just pass through and you'll shit it out. Drink bleach and it'll probably kill you or at least give you terrible injuries.

Ok, guess I should have asked, what should we know about bleach besides the warnings prominently printed on the bottle. Tbf I really don't expect everything in my house to be edible.
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