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Saudi Arabian Hackers Leak Credit Card Details of 400,000 Israeli Citizens

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Re: Saudi Arabian Hackers Leak Credit Card Details of 400,000 Israeli Citizens

#81

Post by noduerme »

rbanffy wrote: post #80
noduerme wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I'm the racist. Not the guys who posted this on pastebin: "Judaism.txt, it includes 65 Zionist people who purchased stuff from Judaism web site" Certainly sounds racially motivated to me. Let's say we accept, for a moment, that not all Jews are Zionists, that "criticism of Israel" isn't motivated by anti-semitism. Let's even pretend for a second that stealing civilians' credit card numbers is a valid form of cr…

All you managed to demonstrate is that you are not the only racist in the world. I'm also relieved you didn't question the rest of the assessment, and agree your comment was deeply rude, ignorant and arrogant. That's a start. I never said the release was warranted, fair, right or anything close to that. In fact, I did not even manifest an opinion about it. I only pointed out your message was not up to our standards (…

I'm not a racist, thanks very much. I don't put Arabs into one category, and I don't have a problem with them. In fact, I have two half-brothers who are Lebanese, and I grew up with plenty of Arabic culture (and food). I've been to Lebanon, and also to Israel.

Having said that, I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia for a million dollars. It's not racist to point out the shortcomings of a national culture. Name one piece of technology used in this attack that was invented or even built in Saudi Arabia. Name one program that was written there. If you can't, it's not my fault. And clearly they're not so oppressed by Israel and the West that they can't afford to buy nice things, or build their own industries if they choose to. I know Lebanese guys who've moved back to Beirut to do startups. Look at Qatar and Dubai. They're too busy branching out and moving beyond an oil economy to be envious of middle-class Israelis.

It's also not racist to point out the lack of character involved in attacking civilians in another country, allegedly in protest of a foreign government, while you yourself live in a phony, sham-theocratic dictatorship.

If anything, I think it's people like yourself with your "good intentions" of pointing out who-must-be-a-racist, without deigning to criticize the giant racist elephant in the room, who are mostly responsible for the continuation of problems in the ME. To quote a famous Christian, first take the plank out of your own eye.

Re: Saudi Arabian Hackers Leak Credit Card Details of 400,000 Israeli Citizens

#82

Post by rbanffy »

noduerme wrote: post #81
rbanffy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you managed to demonstrate is that you are not the only racist in the world. I'm also relieved you didn't question the rest of the assessment, and agree your comment was deeply rude, ignorant and arrogant. That's a start. I never said the release was warranted, fair, right or anything close to that. In fact, I did not even manifest an opinion about it. I only pointed out your message was not up to our standards (…

I'm not a racist, thanks very much. I don't put Arabs into one category, and I don't have a problem with them. In fact, I have two half-brothers who are Lebanese, and I grew up with plenty of Arabic culture (and food). I've been to Lebanon, and also to Israel. Having said that, I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia for a million dollars. It's not racist to point out the shortcomings of a national culture. Name one piece of t…

> It's not racist to point out the shortcomings of a national culture

No it's not. What's racist is your assumption that hadn't you (an implicitly superior culture, which is also a somewhat racist idea) told them what natural resource they had under their feet and taught them how to explore it they'd never figure it out for themselves and would be a primitive society. You imply that they are somehow better off because of it when, in fact, the money the country got for its riches was funneled to a small group of religious fundamentalists that, because of it, are able to rule the country unquestioned. One could argue they still have a very primitive society, only now they have money and weapons. You also imply they would never be able to develop the tools used to glean the data, an assumption that's also probably untrue and fail to mention the fact that most script-kids who pull tricks like this around the planet have no knowledge of the inner workings of the tools they use and would never be able to develop them from scratch.

And finally, I did not comment on Saudi Arabia's form of government, its repressive laws or the sadly misguided idiots who pulled this trick and their ideas about how the world works. I, myself, don't like the idea of theocracies (and absolutist monarchies) and regard them as incompatible with democracy.

Unfortunately, this is not the world I live in and we have to coexist with the less than ideal systems other people want (sometimes for no good reason) to live under. We don't have the right to impose our own way of life - or worse, an artificial one that favors us - upon others.

Also, the fact there is a giant racist elephant in the room does not make your own behavior and discourse any more helpful. Let's discuss the elephant when we get to it and, in the meantime, let's not put more little elephants in the room. I'd say there are enough of them already.

Re: Saudi Arabian Hackers Leak Credit Card Details of 400,000 Israeli Citizens

#83

Post by berntb »

rbanffy wrote: post #82
noduerme wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a racist, thanks very much. I don't put Arabs into one category, and I don't have a problem with them. In fact, I have two half-brothers who are Lebanese, and I grew up with plenty of Arabic culture (and food). I've been to Lebanon, and also to Israel. Having said that, I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia for a million dollars. It's not racist to point out the shortcomings of a national culture. Name one piece of t…

> It's not racist to point out the shortcomings of a national culture No it's not. What's racist is your assumption that hadn't you (an implicitly superior culture, which is also a somewhat racist idea) told them what natural resource they had under their feet and taught them how to explore it they'd never figure it out for themselves and would be a primitive society. You imply that they are somehow better off becaus…

>>Unfortunately, this is not the world I live in and we have to coexist with the less than ideal systems other people want (sometimes for no good reason) to live under. We don't have the right to impose our own way of life

You think the North Koreans made an informed choice to starve while the party elite drank good whiskey?!

Tyrants like those just has no right of existence.

Re: Saudi Arabian Hackers Leak Credit Card Details of 400,000 Israeli Citizens

#84

Post by rbanffy »

berntb wrote: post #83
rbanffy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not racist to point out the shortcomings of a national culture No it's not. What's racist is your assumption that hadn't you (an implicitly superior culture, which is also a somewhat racist idea) told them what natural resource they had under their feet and taught them how to explore it they'd never figure it out for themselves and would be a primitive society. You imply that they are somehow better off becaus…

>>Unfortunately, this is not the world I live in and we have to coexist with the less than ideal systems other people want (sometimes for no good reason) to live under. We don't have the right to impose our own way of life You think the North Koreans made an informed choice to starve while the party elite drank good whiskey?! Tyrants like those just has no right of existence.

They made a choice. Not an informed one.

It's their job to get rid of their tyrant. We may help them, but we have no right to expect them to pick a form of government that pleases us. It's their country.

Re: Saudi Arabian Hackers Leak Credit Card Details of 400,000 Israeli Citizens

#85

Post by rdtsc »

dvirsky wrote: post #77
rdtsc wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Attacking the general (innocent) populace for the faults of their government/military? Generally agree but with one exception -- in places were the government claims it represents the people and most people agree with that. Then everyone who votes basically shares the guilt of what the government does.

Most democracies I know are usually divided between conservatives of some sort and liberals of some sort, who agree and nothing, and usually just over 50% of the voters if not less, agree with their government's policies. I totally disagree with the Israeli gov's policies and often protest them. Guess what? My personal info was inside those files (deprecated credit card and email though). Attacking citizens of democr…

Democracies (or just "advertised" democracies) can't have it both ways. They get to tell the world about their superior system of government where citizens have a say in how their government runs (sometimes they even invade others to impose this "superior" system on them). And that's great. But then there is the other side of the coin when the said govt. screws up, then citizens should man up and take responsibility. I am responsible for US invading Iraq and Afghanistan. If I am in those countries and I would be afraid for my safety (and rightly so). I didn't vote for it, and I don't think realistically people have the power and the voice in most advertised democracies. But then, one can argue, they are also responsible for now changing the system (and therefor the 99% Occupy stuff is happening all over, it is not about economy it is about who has the power, control and responsability).

Re: Saudi Arabian Hackers Leak Credit Card Details of 400,000 Israeli Citizens

#86

Post by berntb »

rbanffy wrote: post #84
berntb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Unfortunately, this is not the world I live in and we have to coexist with the less than ideal systems other people want (sometimes for no good reason) to live under. We don't have the right to impose our own way of life You think the North Koreans made an informed choice to starve while the party elite drank good whiskey?! Tyrants like those just has no right of existence.

They made a choice. Not an informed one. It's their job to get rid of their tyrant. We may help them, but we have no right to expect them to pick a form of government that pleases us. It's their country.

Of course people have responsibility for their own country.

But "pick their own lifestyle" argument can be used with slaves, which have been kept ignorant by their owners.

I don't know where you come from and might be putting opinions into your fingers, but modern (mostly left extremist) cultural relativistic acceptance of tyrants is truly abhorrent.

(Sorry for coming in late.)

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