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Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

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Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#21
I majored in journalism and worked in tech support for a while, but I got into engineering by seeing manual procedures that I could write software to speed up, so I did that. Management saw the value in it (I helped by pitching this as a force multiplier) and gave me an ever-increasing allotment of my schedule to work on that instead of customer support until it became 100%.

They did try to route me into QA first, but I ignored that and none of them were technical enough to know the difference.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#22

Job experience is a cheap proxy for the ability to get things done : if you've had multiple programming jobs, then you've probably been able to get things done and so hiring you is a safe choice. The absence of programming job experience doesn't mean you can't get things done, it just means you need to demonstrate to employers that you can get things done in other ways. You don't need to do a bootcamp (and I'd argue…

mid to senior with no work experience seems quite unrealistic… work experience is not only a proxy for shipping code, but also for working well in a team, communicating well, being dependable and… so much more.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#23
I personally wouldn't do a bootcamp. You probably already have the technical skills a bootcamp would teach (or could learn them more effectively outside a bootcamp setting).

I think you have a few possible paths (many mentioned in sibling comments):

Ship something at least slightly novel of your own. Could be a web site, a web game, a mobile app/game, or something open-source that you've kept at for 6+ months. This will both sharpen your own skills and give an interviewer something concrete to talk about.

Complete Advent of Code. This isn't quite as impressive as the previous, but if someone has completed all of an AoC, that's a pretty positive sign for me. (Note that it's quite possible to cheat at AoC, making this not as strong a signal.)

People hate to hear it, but grind leetcode. Get to the point where 95% of leetcode easy problems are truly easy for you and where medium ones are 50/50 within your grasp. Not only will this sharpen your skills, but it (like AoC) will force you to work through some problems that are initially difficult for you. Just like lifting heavier weights, this exercise will make you stronger as a programmer.

Find an open-source project that has some beginner-friendly tasks. See if you can complete any of those. This will both give you confidence, but also give you a sense of "do I really want to do this as a job?" (A lot of programming is, IMO, the best job in the world. A lot of is...not...)

Keep at the applications. Ask for feedback from failed interviews. Sometimes the true answer is just "we had only one spot and the person we hired interviewed more strongly"; OK, only sensible thing you can do is keep interviewing. Other times, you might get a piece of feedback that really helps.

You could consider pursuing some (charged) AWS certifications. These aren't a major positive signal for a lot of employers, but they're a modestly positive signal for some and for a career-changer, they're probably a better signal of seriousness than a more traditional candidate.

If you find none of that lands you a role, depending on your location, age, and life circumstances, see if any companies near you have internship programs and if one would consider hiring you into their internship program.

I would only do the QA-first route if that was the very last option for you. (It's probably better than a bootcamp, but it's close.) Companies that hire you into QA won't want to quickly lose you from QA into coding. I have a few devs on my team who have gone through that route in our company, so it's definitely possible (and they're good), but I think it's on average a longer road than waiting and coming in the front door to software.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#24

In my experience it’s not too hard to get an entry level role at consulting companies like Accenture, Deloitte, etc, there are also hundreds of smaller consulting companies. Create a resume that shows, 1. You can answer basic coding questions 2. You’re able to work on a team 3. You have some soft skills to work with customers to learn about what they want, so you can build it for them The first step is to get that in…

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Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interviewer can easily download your app(s) and have plenty of material to ask you about during the interview. In my experience, this never happened. I strongly suspect that was because they had already decided they weren’t going to hire me (I was 55, when I was interviewing), and didn’t want to waste the time.

I can't argue with your experience but will simply add that I did download apps from the two candidates I interviewed that did have apps on the AppStore.

I had one chap refuse to check my portfolio, because "I probably faked it."

Here's my GH ID: https://github.com/ChrisMarshallNY

You can easily see that I faked over a decade of checkin history, dozens of repos, in multiple organizations, over 20 shipped apps, lots of blog posts, tutorials, class modules, etc.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#26

Job experience is a cheap proxy for the ability to get things done : if you've had multiple programming jobs, then you've probably been able to get things done and so hiring you is a safe choice. The absence of programming job experience doesn't mean you can't get things done, it just means you need to demonstrate to employers that you can get things done in other ways. You don't need to do a bootcamp (and I'd argue…

I'd argue that part of "the ability to get things done" is exactly what OP is likely missing as a hobbyist: the ability to work with peers and superiors effectively. Doing a bootcamp is IMHO a good way to help on the ability to work with peers; while it's not the focus and you might get bored on the coding side of things, that's also good because it gives you time to think and act on how to collaborate more effectively (but only if the money you pay is something you can happily spend; don't go into trouble otherwise IMHO).

Then you also need to be able to get your boss, stakeholders, etc. tasks and needs into account to build something for them. As advice here, you could probably try freelancing to get more knowledge. As a hobby, now you get an idea and have self-learned how to implement it. With clients or bosses, you need to get them to explain the idea, and go back and forth enough to understand it well enough without becoming annoying/more trouble than it's worth. Some clients will delegate more and give you more creative freedom, some will delegate less, and both might have different abilities to express their thoughts. It's your task to make sure you understand it all and are able to execute on their idea, complementing it with your creativity when needed.

If you are in a good enough position, I'd start trying freelancing for family and friends small business at a discount, then try to get more and more real-ish clients. Once you have become good enough at freelancing that you are ready to find a job, you might even be able to convert some of those freelancer jobs into part or fulltime jobs, or at the very least showcase your work so far. I did that with a couple of internships and then a bit of freelancing.

Note: this advice won't get you in Google, but IMHO it's a good path to get in the industry.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#27

Job experience is a cheap proxy for the ability to get things done : if you've had multiple programming jobs, then you've probably been able to get things done and so hiring you is a safe choice. The absence of programming job experience doesn't mean you can't get things done, it just means you need to demonstrate to employers that you can get things done in other ways. You don't need to do a bootcamp (and I'd argue…

I also feel that broad experience with general technical exposure is very valuable. But it can be hard to sell it to the management.

In my previous job I was highly respected, both technically and as a technology PM, but I still failed to sell many candidates without a good paper background.

"Her degree is in music? That's not great.", even though it was science focused, she had several acoustics and waveform analysis projects, strong math background and would fit well in our signal processing group.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#28
> Without any programming jobs on my CV, what is a good way to penetrate into the market?

freelance work.

Sign up on Upwork.com (or similar). Do a bunch of contracts. Put them on your resume.

I did freelance work for years before deciding i was sick of constantly hustling for clients. Then I applied for jobs and said "here's all the things I've done" and they were like "cool. interview. yup. you're hired"

Also, pro-tip: make contributions to big name open source projects. Not only will it be great to be able to honestly say "yeah, I'm a Rails contributor" (or whatever) BUT it is also great experience for working with others. The large projects tend to have high standards and require good code and unit tests. You'll frequently get a code review and need to make some tweaks before it gets merged. Good experience.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#29
I made friends with a lot of professional programmers so many of them were aware of my skills. Eventually one of them helped me get my first job despite the fact that I had just dropped out of a CS program because of depression. I wish I had a better answer for you, but a strong professional network is always going to be key to your career prospects.
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