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The internet wants to be fragmented

noahpinion.substack.com

21–30 of 246 posts

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#21
post #19

[flagged]

"Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

FWIW I just disable JavaScript on Substack.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#22
post #18

The biggest problem is the like button. The like button is not only a bad metric - it's the worst possible metric. Speaking up used to be something you do to change someone's mind or yours. What's the point in speaking up if nobody does anything with what you said? The like button reprogrammed people. They started getting positive feedback for speaking in an echo chamber, for saying and doing things their audience al…

The like button or upvote or whatever has the same meaning: the viewer is signalling most of the time "I agree with this". Once you factor in other things like quotes and replies you're no longer measuring "engagement". You're measuring and optimizing for "outrage". Thing is, social media didn't invent this. Outrage-as-engagement existed on TV long before social media existed. For decades, local news has pushed the "…

I agree with you on mass media, in fact I think the problem already started there, and it's even worse because it's not even a conversation, it's one sided.

When I'm speaking in person it's still similar to what I'm describing. I could have political discussion in highly polarized family with different opinions and people listening, and with friends too.

It's not "used to be", unless somehow you stopped talking in the real world.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#23
I'm not sure this was anything new, even when the original tweet was posted. I remember back in around 2000 when someone put up a page on a random domain that simply said "Well done, you have reached the end of the internet. You can now go outside." It was early enough that people could still remember when one person could have visited most sites on the internet, but that was long enough ago that it was clearly impossible to do again. I remember reading that page when someone sent it to me and feeling a deep sense of relief at the idea, even though I knew it was impossible.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#24
post #11

The biggest problem is the like button. The like button is not only a bad metric - it's the worst possible metric. Speaking up used to be something you do to change someone's mind or yours. What's the point in speaking up if nobody does anything with what you said? The like button reprogrammed people. They started getting positive feedback for speaking in an echo chamber, for saying and doing things their audience al…

First, I agree with the reprogramming. But in my experience, the goals shouldn’t be to as you state “to change their minds.” , it should be to listen and respond. If I disagree with you, I want to know how you came to that conclusion , I am not interested in your talking points you had recycled from somewhere. This also makes discussions way more interesting. Now, this principle should extend to anyone, and the probl…

"Seek to understand before seeking to be understood."

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#25
Now the article was only talking about twitter and social media, but I can't help react on the title since there really is no evidence at all of internet wanting to be fragmented. In fact it's just the opposite.

- Not even the most hardcore people are using IRC anymore

- All web hosting is now in the cloud

- There's basically only two rendering engines left, of which one is at the moment extremely marginalized

- GIT that was supposed to be distributed is now used as a centralized versioning system in centralized services.

If anything it seems that the internet wants to be consolidated.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#26
post #5

Not at all, we want to have a unified discourse, but we have vastly different values and therefore moderation preferences. The only solution to this is making moderation user-based, but with better UX than just block everyone you don't like. The user initiatives formed 'block lists' on twitter, which are kind of a good idea for this, you have decentralized decisions that get aggregated into a single filter which then…

This is already a solved problem. If I block every anti-vaxxer I see on Twitter, eventually Twitter will stop showing them to me. But if I view the tweet replies to President Biden, I see the anti-vaxxer replies right at the top. So they just need to apply the user preferences across the entire platform.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#27
post #21
post #19

[flagged]

"Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html FWIW I just disable JavaScript on Substack.

I find the topic of annoying pop-ups interesting and was thinking, to align better with the site rules, maybe the OP could start an Ask HN topic about the pop-ups and we continue there.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#28

The biggest problem is the like button. The like button is not only a bad metric - it's the worst possible metric. Speaking up used to be something you do to change someone's mind or yours. What's the point in speaking up if nobody does anything with what you said? The like button reprogrammed people. They started getting positive feedback for speaking in an echo chamber, for saying and doing things their audience al…

This is one of the more astute things I’ve read in a while. The like button has become what an angry mob yelling to one another while holding pitchforks use language for. And this is what using the internet feels like now.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#29
post #25

Now the article was only talking about twitter and social media, but I can't help react on the title since there really is no evidence at all of internet wanting to be fragmented. In fact it's just the opposite. - Not even the most hardcore people are using IRC anymore - All web hosting is now in the cloud - There's basically only two rendering engines left, of which one is at the moment extremely marginalized - GIT…

What is important is, as the article says, "to be allowed to leave", this consists in having alternatives.

- The web hosting is in the cloud, but if it's easy to change it, what's the problem?

- Git a url and you can easily change the central backup server point.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#30
post #11

The biggest problem is the like button. The like button is not only a bad metric - it's the worst possible metric. Speaking up used to be something you do to change someone's mind or yours. What's the point in speaking up if nobody does anything with what you said? The like button reprogrammed people. They started getting positive feedback for speaking in an echo chamber, for saying and doing things their audience al…

First, I agree with the reprogramming. But in my experience, the goals shouldn’t be to as you state “to change their minds.” , it should be to listen and respond. If I disagree with you, I want to know how you came to that conclusion , I am not interested in your talking points you had recycled from somewhere. This also makes discussions way more interesting. Now, this principle should extend to anyone, and the probl…

I said change theirs or yours. Not necessarily change it completely but at least learn where the difference comes from, and either move my position to account for new information or logic, or try to convince the other side.

But I do see it as a goal to get the opinions closer. I prefer listening while having a clear picture of what I'm currently thinking about it because only then you can realize where's the difference, and the difference is what you want to learn.

If the other side doesn't listen to statements, they might listen to questions. Asking what they think about X might get a better response than just stating X. Works in real world too against these types. Many times it's not because it's online, it's just narcissistic personality. Many people won't acknowledge when something moves their opinion.

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