Earlier quoted context omitted.
They didn't even understand the terms they agreed to. The distributor didn't "grift" them. They weren't swindled, it was just bad business decision making and lack of understanding their terms.
Perhaps not a grift, but surely the guy who arranged this deal (who they have since ceased doing business with) could have more clearly communicated to them to what it was they were agreeing. There are multiple points of failure, and it seems the company accepted the crippling responsibility on their end.
Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
371–380 of 386 posts
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#372>>To make this order happen, we had to take $45,000 in personal loans from friends and family, $65,000 in business credit card debt, $35,000 from a business loan, $60,000 in personal credit card debt, $20,000 in outstanding invoice debt, and $11,000 in loans from us personally to the business, for a total of $216,000 in debt. I don't find myself very sympathetic. Feels like there is plenty of evidence that the busine…
> I don't find myself very sympathetic. Feels like there is plenty of evidence that the business owners here aren't the most diligent or detailed oriented. > $45k+$65k+$35k+$60k+$20k+$11k adds up to $236k $20k of that, as called out by them is invoice debt. Aka they will are owed that amount but amount, they just have yet to get it from the distributor. Leaving them with the $216k number given. > $20,000 in outstandi…
It's either intentionally misleading or lack of diligence in presenting the numbers.
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it a standard retail practice to agree to a sale quantity but not a price?
Price per item/unit/case/box whatever and a volume would be on the purchase order, not necessarily the total. If the PO said "6k units @ $7/bag" (made up price), that's ambiguous enough to cause confusion.
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Glad they actually paid. I've had similar situations where I'm still waiting for the money 5 years later (I know it's never coming)
Can you sue them? People pretend it’s impossible to sue a large company but that is absolutely false, even for a few thousand dollars.
The reason was more to force their hand, but you don’t just “sue a large company” they will play games like ediscovery, and crazy-weird jurisdiction stuff
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#375This isn't grifting, and if they had specified the distributor it would be libel. This is a story about a small business that made a lot of bad decisions and got in way over theirs heads. That's all well and good, but the spin to try to make themselves look like victims is pretty disingenuous. This sounds like the story you get from a teenager about how it's everyone else's fault after they're caught red handed doing…
How are they possibly not the victims after the distributor orders a vast quantity of product, goes MIA for months, and then proceeds to go "whoops, just kidding, here's your stale product back"?
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#376Otherwise, bad behaviors continue.
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like agreeing to contract terms you are entirely unable to uphold?
They didn't even understand the terms they agreed to. The distributor didn't "grift" them. They weren't swindled, it was just bad business decision making and lack of understanding their terms.
In college, I worked in a lab that used disposable pipette tips to measure/move samples around, which come in small "racks" like these https://www.coleparmer.ca/i/thermo-fisher-molecular-bioprodu...
We normally got a copy-paper box or two of these at a time, which lasted for a few months. However, one day one of my colleagues, who did not grow up speaking English, placed the order and asked for a huge number of cases, thinking "case" was a synonym for the individual plastic boxes that they came in.
It...was not, as we found out when a delivery man appeared up with a motorized pallet jack. He's a bit miffed too: "Is there an easier way to bring up the rest?" The order ended up filling an entire closet and then some. They were still working through them when I left a year later.
In retrospect, the price was obviously too high, but it was a small part of a big equipment order--and science stuff is often eye-wateringly expensive anyway.
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're moving your goalpost. Up above you said, > They thought they had a deal to sell 6000 "units" for $250,000. Now you're agreeing that they didn't necessarily have that deal up front, and that they should have asked for it.
Are you saying they agreed to a deal without even knowing the price of a ‘unit’?? They truly are idiots then
And under no conceivable scenario are the justified in accusing the distributor of being a bad actor.
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing that I came back to time and time again while consulting is that most operational problems are, in whole or in part, language problems, in the Wittgenstein sense. I worked with a lot of clients to define and document “linguistic boundaries” in their organizations where terms could abruptly change their meanings, and then used that to help silos communicate more effectively with each other.
Can you provide good reading, books, etc on this skill? I'm a junior dev and I notice this everywhere in my org. I'm just dipping my toes into DDD by Evans but it's a bit opaque to me.
In the tech side, I still think there’s a lot of value in reading through Booch and friends, even if you don’t go on to use UML in a formal way, and even old, deprecated approaches to modeling (think Shlaer-Mellor) can be valuable as an introduction to more modern (and generally more complicated) approaches to domain modeling.
For more academic and less practical works, look into philosophers of language and communication (Rorty, Habermas, Latour, etc) — if you don’t have a background there, try the “Very Short Introduction” series, which gives a good grounding before moving into further secondary or primary literature. What you get from these writers is a way to think about language, communications, and complex systems, so you’re building a conceptual toolkit. (Analytic philosophy, which is another, “mainstream” branch of philosophy, also has applications in the formal comp-sci route.)
Sociology and STS (Science and Technology Studies) kind of occupies a practical middle-ground between philosophy and design; I’ve often said that when we do service design, we’re really just doing folk sociology. There’s no shortage of textbooks, but I’d recommend looking into academic field guides for ethnographic studies (a fancy term for “going out and talking to people about what they do”) and ethnomethodological studies (a fancy term for “going out and talking to people about what they believe”). While the service design books will give you practical tools for conducting workshops and research programs, sociology books will give you a firm grounding on why those tools are used, and how to theorize effectively on what you uncover. I also like measurement theory, which is a branch of psychology concerned with understanding how to define measures and metrics — great tools for clearly defining data and reporting.
Finally, in addition to all this, consider digging into a corporate finance text or two; the three legs of the stool are product and service design; technical and operational architecture; and finance and sales. If you can read your company’s balance sheet and cash flow statements, you’ll be in a much better position to understand where you need to target investments, what the likely return on investment will be, and how much cash (or debt) is available to make things happen. Start building up a good knowledge base in all those areas, and you’ll have the tools necessary to know the “where, how, and why” to apply the “what” of technology to your organization’s problems.
Re: Distributor cancelled an order and we need to move 30k bags of coffee [updated]
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you saying they agreed to a deal without even knowing the price of a ‘unit’?? They truly are idiots then
Others have pointed this out, but it's possible that the estimated volume was quoted in units while the price was quoted in bags. That seems unlikely, but it's possible. If that is what happened, then their IQ (idiocy quotient) is not quite so far off the scale as it would have been if they really had agreed to the deal without knowing the price at all. But it's still pretty damn high. And under no conceivable scenar…