South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths' • Hacker News Board

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#91

Post by Mezzie » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

nibbleshifter wrote: post #25

falcolas wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would traditional gender roles solve the lonely death problem?

[flagged]

And that said state appointed waifu wouldn't poison them. All forcing me and my peers to be someone's wife would do is cause a drastic increase in 'accidental' deaths involving mixed household cleaners or improperly prepared food. Teehee, don't blame us, after all, you said yourselves we're too stupid to be trusted!

You'd have to go full Taliban/Gilead and cut off education/take the decades to brainwash the girls. It'd take a few generations before (most of) the women would comply, so none of the men arguing for it now would even benefit.

Which is why I'm convinced it's all an edgy LARP - the right wing version of 18 and 19 year old undergraduate anti-capitalists who can't tell you what capitalism actually IS. (I'm anti-capitalist myself but they make my side look bad...)

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#92

Post by throwawaysleep » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #77

leeroyjenkins11 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging people to marry and have committed monogamous relationships. Create a stigma to encourage people to only have sex inside of committed marriage relationships so when they get older the have a lasting relationship with someone. Also it's would help killing the sex trade as a young man will pe willing to pay for it via websites or in person, but don't form those long term relationships before it's too late.

These christian-adjacent solutions seem completely bizarre to me. They smell like solutions that have been worked backwards from ideology than actual data. South Korea is a christian nation; forget prostitution, even pornography is banned in South Korea. South Korea, while being largely agnostic (~49%), is largely a christian nation by largest sect. If your prescriptions worked, South Korea would be a poster child fo…

The monogamy argument is basically to force women into relationships with these men rather than using their current choice to not marry men they find undesirable.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#93

Post by wwweston » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

abosherid wrote: post #36

Religion has many positive benefits on society. We minister to those within our own congregation and are aware of individuals needs. A sense of community is fostered and people are concerned about more than themselves. Perhaps the pendulum will swing back to people discovering religion?

I'm part of a religious community, and while I agree that community and a sense of mutual care can arise from religious beliefs... the idea that it's the answer seems pretty iffy to me, especially considering that religious communities appear to have their own isolating failure modes. It's a bit like saying "capitalism is good at taking care of people's needs"; it's actually true in many cases, not super helpful in others. And religion isn't exactly hidden as a solution.

Society-wide I think revitalization of all kinds of half-forgotten communal institutions in the image of the bowling league or the fraternal organization could have some benefits. Churches too, but if the one I belong to is any indication, they could stand to help most by "first wash[ing] the inside of the cup and the dish" -- spend less time trying to remind people of church-relevance and affirming the worldview, and more time making their own community glow more brightly with the warmth/fruits the faith is supposed to produce.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#94

Post by polotics » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #6

I'm a middle aged man living alone. My plan for when I need to die is to buy top loaded freezer and prepay my electric bill to give people at least few years to find my body, keeping the process as easy, for the unfortunates who do, and as clean as possible.

That is not the appropriate way to celebrate your 11'000 karma points :-) may 2023 bring all

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#95

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:40 PM UTC

gernb wrote: post #88

Apocryphon wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what would help encourage that? Widespread affordable home ownership and debt relief. Yet that is a problem from west to east.

Wouldn't it be the other way? If home ownership (and renting) became so expensive no one could possibly do it without multiple incomes people would be forced to find roommates.

Doesn’t seem to be the case.

> macroeconomic conditions such as soaring housing prices and intense employment pressure also come into play, forcing many people to give up trying to tie the knot

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3204140/y...

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#96

Post by rayiner » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:41 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #2

This is a situation that will affect too many men worldwide as they are more likely to live single / be childless. The solution is to have communities or networks of people built explitictly around the idea of caring for others.

It’s called kinship networks built around people with blood ties. In tens of thousands of years nobody has figured out any stronger bond.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#97

Post by seydor » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:41 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #56

seydor wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transactional but also intentional. Nothing more or less. Men are not bad at maintaining relationships, that is a falsehood. Historically, men built all the hierarchical structures we have today. Antrhopologists used to say that men build a large and shallow network of relationships (while women prefer small but more intimate groups or pairs). It doesn't have to involve communal living, but instead regular gatherings…

I'm not sure if the shallow, mostly transactional relations men build help in the context of loneliness. Non-religious versions of "churches" seem to fail due to a lack of regular attendance. Free Masons seem to have solved this by building some kinds of pressure to attend. I genuinely wonder why they fell out of favor. Did they just become uncool?

You can also look at other communities that sprang up, like e.g. the gay community, who faced marginalization as well. Gatherings like pride parades are creating a sense of community which supports people

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#98

Post by rcarr » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:42 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #6

I'm a middle aged man living alone. My plan for when I need to die is to buy top loaded freezer and prepay my electric bill to give people at least few years to find my body, keeping the process as easy, for the unfortunates who do, and as clean as possible.

Would it not be easier to use some method that doesn't cause a mess and to automate an email or text message to your local police department/paramedic etc with details on what you've done and how to locate your body? Sounds preferable to leaving it to chance whilst your body is in a freezer for n years.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#99

Post by throwawaysleep » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:45 PM UTC

sushzbdbehsh wrote: post #37

seydor wrote: post #2

This is a situation that will affect too many men worldwide as they are more likely to live single / be childless. The solution is to have communities or networks of people built explitictly around the idea of caring for others.

not sure that meshes well with the deities of profit and wealth

Activities have increasingly become profit focused. Not sure why friends couldn’t also be.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#100

Post by woodruffw » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:45 PM UTC

gernb wrote: post #83

woodruffw wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things stop anyone (including men) from dying alone. Stigmatization itself is the root of the problem here: lonely people, and particular men, do not want to admit that they are lonely.

How does as man admitting that he's lonely help?

“Admit” as in “enable social structures around,” not “confess to random strangers.”

As a concrete (and tiny) example: we enforce loneliness at the physical and policy levels by subsiding the construction of car-dependent suburbs: human socialization becomes defined by points of interaction (driving to the bowling alley, except you have no friends to bowl with), rather than transitory areas of interaction.