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SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

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Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#261

Post by hartator »

bamboozled wrote: post #194
WalterBright wrote: post #157

The article complains about automation replacing workers. This complaint goes back to the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, but automation has enabled us to sit in warm houses and watch Netflix all day rather than spending every day picking bugs off of our crops. The other thing it complains about is cutting costs. Well, Southwest has the cheapest air fares. You don't get top flight customer service when you bu…

On the other hand I went to a nice restaurant the other night that wanted me to use an automated app to order, I found it somewhat offensive. There are times I actually enjoy not looking at any type of screen and having a nice meal is one of those times.

I hate it too. And in the same sentence, they will talk about “human connection”, “local”, “organic”.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#262

Post by richbell »

refurb wrote: post #255
richbell wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only if you view the world as a first year poly sci major with a penchant for Marx > The world is way more complex than just "class". You don't have to be a Marxist to recognize that class is one of the most important characteristics of our society. A black woman living in poverty has far more in common with a white man living in poverty than an upper-class Ivy-league educated black man. People are systemically exp…

Like I said, class doesn't define everything, it's one of many factors. I'd encourage you to broaden your world view to more than just economic status.

> Like I said, class doesn't define everything, it's one of many factors.

> I'd encourage you to broaden your world view to more than just economic status.

It's easy not to think about the importance of your economic status when you're well-off. The vast majority of people don't have that luxury.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#263

Post by marcus0x62 »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #28
marcus0x62 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters, what does this have to do with the Southwest meltdown, which seems to have been caused in large part by a lack of automation?

It would be a mistake to suppose that more automation would have resulted in a different outcome. For example, an update to a critical system can also result in operator/interface breakdowns, leading to failures. In fact, according to some accounts, this is exactly what happened and it exacerbated things (some spreadsheet software was updated). I recommend this paper to everyone: https://ckrybus.com/static/papers/Bai…

The automation in this case would be a means other than live telephone calls to confirm/update crew locations and, no, it would not be a mistake to assume other methods would scale better.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#264

Post by subradios »

joshstrange wrote: post #39
subradios wrote: post #2

But automated call centers do save the customer time. 9 times out of 10 a user problem is easily remediated by pointing the user to the correct manual. If it wasn't, phone trees and other pre-tech phone routing would never save the company money at all! Customers would buy products with customer service that actually solved their problem instead. Customer service solving the customer problem in the fastest possible t…

This comment is so wrong it hurts. > But automated call centers do save the customer time. 9 times out of 10 a user problem is easily remediated by pointing the user to the correct manual. Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. It's a strategy to try to get you to go online, use an automated system, or annoy you until you give up. Trust me, if I'm calling into a business something has already gone horribly wrong. The…

I agree with your story about the answers not being on the website.

However, the users that represent the vast majority of support calls are very clearly not you.

This is ok.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#265

Post by osigurdson »

Waterluvian wrote: post #144
osigurdson wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike tipping. I can’t remember the last time that service was so amazing that a tip was required. Of course, I’m not sure I would be happier if the bill was the same with the tip component removed. I suppose it does give the consumer some leverage if the service was horrible. I think I’ve just convinced myself that tips are ok.

Those who are punished by not tipping are unlikely to be the exclusive cause for poor service.

Sure, but they may make some noise which could lead to better service next time (i.e. a feedback loop). Otherwise, only the consumer is punished and it is less likely that things will improve.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#266

Post by Waterluvian »

osigurdson wrote: post #265
Waterluvian wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who are punished by not tipping are unlikely to be the exclusive cause for poor service.

Sure, but they may make some noise which could lead to better service next time (i.e. a feedback loop). Otherwise, only the consumer is punished and it is less likely that things will improve.

And then we’re right back to the crux of this article: pitting employees and customers against each other. So now our mechanism is to punish employees in hope that it forces improvement from the company?

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#267

Post by standardUser »

kova12 wrote: post #250
standardUser wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to live in Manhattan on waiter's earnings is wishful thinking. That's factually untrue and kind of an absurd statement. Of course people live in Manhattan working as servers.

Solely on the salary of a server?

A server can make $100-$500 per shift in tips, 4-5 shifts per week. On the low end, that's probably not enough even for a roommate situation. But in the medium-to-high end, that can easily cover a studio apartment.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#268

Post by insane_dreamer »

> Under the auspices of “empowering” the consumer, we are told to spy on our low-wage servants and gauge the quality of their servitude with stars, tips, and reviews.

I hadn't thought of it this way before, but I totally agree. We're told to judge the person rather than the system.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#269

Post by insane_dreamer »

> Under the thin pretense of Covid, increased labor power has exploded the use of automated technology that creates a frustrating maze to get a simple problem solved or task accomplished

Has anyone else noticed how every single service call you make now has a (I suspect permanent) voice message saying "we are experiencing higher call volume than normal". If volumes are continuously higher than normal, then they're are the "new normal" and companies must adjust accordingly. (Edit: I see this is in fact mentioned later in the article; hadn't gotten that far yet).

> More and more consumers are being pushed away from humans onto automated systems we are told will “save us time,” but instead exist solely to save the corporation labor costs. ... The waiter hasn’t been replaced by an iPad, they’ve been replaced by you.

When faced with an automated system I always just press 0 continuously in the hope that it will break the cycle and get me through to a human rather than wade through their garbage system and answer a bunch of prompts only to have to repeat it all again when I finally get to an actual human (since I have yet to find one of those automated systems actually able to solve my query).

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#270

Post by insane_dreamer »

> A November 2022 study published in the journal Econometrica looked at the significantly widening income gap between lesser and more educated workers over the past 40 years. It found that “automation accounts for more than half of that increase”

There's a lot of talk about "look at the low employment numbers, automation hasn't made humans redundant after all, so stop being such a luddite". But what is usually overlooked is the downward pressure that it's put on wages (when adjusted for inflation), and the yawning income gap referred to above.

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