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Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

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Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#371

Post by TylerE »

jasonhansel wrote: post #120
OJFord wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college Except American children away from home 'for college' are still exactly 'children', home with different parents. The culture of halls and canteens and the way it's funded is much more 'provided for you' than 'you're providing for yourself now'. I don't get the sense (from NA undergrads I've known, film, etc.) that much learning to cook go…

> Certainly anyone living 'off-campus' and having bills to pay is in a minority. Only among wealthier students: - 70% of students have jobs while enrolled, depending crucially on socioeconomic status: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/11/18/most-college-... - In typical public colleges, only 36% of students live in dorms, vs. 58% in typical private colleges: https://collegeaffordability.urban.org/prices-and-ex…

At least at the public university in my town, this is because they’ve built only 3 new dorms in the past 40 years or so while enrollment has essentially doubled.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#372

Post by m3Lith »

softwaredoug wrote: post #361

I had a very smothering mother. Someone a bit too much into parenting for her own emotional needs, rather than her children’s. So you can imagine independence was subtly discouraged. At the same time my Father came from a traditionally wealthy family. While we were not wealthy, his family consisted of successful lawyers, doctors, and entrepreneurs. So there was a lot of pressure to choose a somewhat preordained path…

I think it's universal. And not always in a consciously aware way. It seems natural to try to raise your kids the way you were raised (if that formed a good image in your head), or to try to do the complete opposite (if that left a bad image in your head). And both can go to very extremes.

In my case (I'm from northern-eastern EU), my mom was very overprotective and over caring as well. With the years, I realized that, and was trying to "ignore" it as much as possible. However, she didn't really see my "ungratefulness", and was continuing all the same. Me being a shy kid, and having this level of care, had a big influence on my independence/self-confidence. I stayed at my parents until 28. This was last year. For the past year I was having angrier thoughts, bad thoughts sometimes. I finally mustered the courage and got my own place in another city. My mom was pretty sad with this, and was rather asking me to get a bigger house where we could live together more spaciously (we lived in a smallish flat). I thought she's joking, but she was not, she would even send me house listing ads. Anyways, this decision was the greatest thing so far in my life. I've been on my own for over a year now, learning the ropes of being a self-sustainable adult.

I never miss my parents. I do visit them once a month for a few hours. Recently, I've talked with my mom about how her behavior was only pushing me away all these years. The good thing, I guess, is that she understood. We cried a bit together. Her reasoning was that she didn't have much attention as a kid - her mom was always working. So she tried to recoup that with her kids. I told that it's the opposite of what I needed, and now I feel very little emotions towards her. I guess I could've told that sooner too. But better now than never.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#373

Post by syzarian »

giantg2 wrote: post #369
rychco wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a pa…

Not really true. Sure, some experiences require a car. But there are tons of things that don't, even in more isolated areas. When I lived in a fairly rural neighborhood, there weren't tons of kids, but one or two families typically. You learned how to get along with them and become friends. You could go anywhere in the neighborhood if you told your parents. You could even ride your bike on trails to the local college…

Rural areas are not typical in terms of where most kids live and grow up. Explaining how things are in rural parts of the country is not a valid counter point. In large parts of the country walking has more or less become criminalized and discouraged. I’m talking about areas where a large percentage of people live. We have also criminalized giving kids autonomy.

https://www.texaspolicy.com/lets-not-criminalize-parents-who...

https://works.bepress.com/lewyn/125/

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#374

Post by syzarian »

Tade0 wrote: post #301
rychco wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a pa…

I see this explanation a lot, but then I look at polls like this one: https://reason.com/2014/08/19/august-2014-reason-rupe-nation... Sprawl is just a scapegoat, the real reason is in the mindset. In my corner of the world the idea that 12 year old teenagers should be, by law, supervised would be laughed at. And mind you, I live in a country where 36% of the population doesn't have access to public transport due to h…

I don’t know if you’ve experienced American stroads. Theoretically you can walk from point A to point B but often times that involves crossing a stroad. Doing so is extremely unpleasant and dangerous. American car drivers just don’t expect pedestrians and are often times hostile to pedestrians. The idea of walking somewhere is an alien thought to many people.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#375

Post by mbg721 »

prox wrote: post #291
mbg721 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The seeds were planted long before 9/11. I was born in the 80s, and even I saw something wasn't right. The Nancy Reagan War on Drugs and Stranger Danger were there already.

I see three comments saying it was there before 9/11, but really, the fear dial was amped to 11 then. It was a milestone in that sense. Furthermore, journalism changed dramatically. Instead of more open ended questions, especially TV interviews started treating guests like enemies for example “Why didn’t you do X?” to a guest, instead of saying “Can you tell us what you did?” Also more subtle changes in how media rep…

I'd place the journalism shark-jump more at the OJ trial than at 9/11.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#377

Post by cjbgkagh »

Xylakant wrote: post #327
cjbgkagh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German and Italian youths have a lot of problems as well. Young Italians are facing crushing unemployment and Germans are facing increasing pressure from cheaper EU labor undermining their earning potential. From what I have been told by friends, being told “shut up and do your job or I’ll replace you with a cheaper foreigner” is a common experience. In addition the modern US campus experience is ‘in loco parentis‘ a…

Germany has a substantial labor shortage in practically all departments except low/unskilled labor. Unemployment hovers around 5% and falling. There are regional differences, but all in all, the threat of “I’ll replace you with a cheaper immigration” is bogus, because there’s not even enough qualified immigrants to fill the open positions, let alone replace anyone with.

The Germans I met were in America so likely a biased sample, but it was more than one and they didn’t know each other.

In addition I got the threat of being replace with a cheaper immigrant in the US even though I was the immigrant, but I worked in research which is generally paid much more than other programmers so more likely to encounter the whole why are we paying you so much sentiment.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#378

Post by Dudeman112 »

remarkEon wrote: post #323
krapp wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see no Cathedrals, no beautiful songs, no art, no science, no entire civilizations built to the honor of ... nothing. Not believing in God isn't equivalent to a belief in nothing. Of course, plenty of songs, art and literally all of science have been created outside of the religious sphere. It seems regressive to the point of being archaic to dismiss the validity of all human effort not explicitly done in "honor"…

>You want a Cathedral built in honor of "nothing?" Have the Hubble Space Telescope. Extremely bizarre to think that the Hubble Space Telescope is a Cathedral built in honor of nothing. Nothing? Peaking into the Heavens is ... nothing? Okay.

He was arguing against someone who clearly thinks reality is nothing without divinity

For that person, it really is nothing

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#379

Post by alex_young »

bbreier wrote: post #184
alex_young wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the same source: The overall college enrollment rate for 18- to 24-year-olds was 40 percent in 2020. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpb/college-enrol...

Many students will have graduated by the time they are 24, so it is possible that both statements 1. the majority of American children go to college and 2. 40 percent of 18-24 year olds are enrolled are simultaneously true

I’m not suggesting they these numbers are in contradiction.

I believe they are actually measuring any time enrollment in that period. Otherwise the statistic seems of little value.

On time high school graduation is achieved by around 86% of the population. This surely accounts for much of the difference.

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=805

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#380

Post by znpy »

jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

> American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy.

Anecdotal data point. I grew up in south italy in the early 90ies.

At ~11-12 years old I was independent enough to go to the countryside near home (we lived in a small town) with my dad's axe to cut down small pieces of wood, go back home and work them with table knives. It was fun.

Needless to say, my parent's hadn't realized i was taking out my dad's axe (they found out later...) and my mum definitely wasn't glad i had destroyed most table knives (using them for cutting olive tree wood -- and olive tree wood is hard).

To add some context: my dad was a clerk and was out most of the day, and my mum had to care about my younger sister and my older brother besides me... and I was the one making a new mess every day.

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