Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#301

Post by Tade0 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 8:59 AM UTC

rychco wrote: post #221

jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a pa…

I see this explanation a lot, but then I look at polls like this one:

https://reason.com/2014/08/19/august-2014-reason-rupe-nation...

Sprawl is just a scapegoat, the real reason is in the mindset.

In my corner of the world the idea that 12 year old teenagers should be, by law, supervised would be laughed at.

And mind you, I live in a country where 36% of the population doesn't have access to public transport due to how it was dismantled over the years in favour of cars and sprawl.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#302

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:00 AM UTC

melagonster wrote: post #279

bhaney wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this a lot. I have a handful of similar stories about nearly dying as a child too, as do most of my friends. But none of us have any stories about knowing someone who accidentally died as a result of doing something dangerous as a kid, even though I'd expect a few of those given how dangerous we all think our childhoods were. Of course, with the reach of the Internet, I'm sure at least somebody reading…

kids died in swimming every year, maybe they are obvious examples.

And drunk driving accidents

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#303

Post by watwut » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:01 AM UTC

bobsmooth wrote: post #262

moonchrome wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The primary, actual risks to children who are roaming are those that involve law enforcement and intolerant adults. Any statistics on that ? I grew up in 90s and in a family with 5 younger siblings my mother couldn't keep up. I got hit by a car running across the street at 6 (I think I was that age). I would roam local forest and street - visiting there recently I remembered how I went to pick up my ball once and n…

6 year olds shouldn't be left alone to play on the street but if your kid is in middle school they should be allowed to bike however far their legs can take them.

But that is the thing - in Germany or Switzerland 6 years old go to and from school unsupervised. The expectation is that they can in fact play alone on the street.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#304

Post by watwut » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:03 AM UTC

AviationAtom wrote: post #89

brightball wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s such a strange blend of wanting to let your kids roam while being more aware of dangers that exist, both online and off. It’s tough. For my son, Scouts have been wonderful for his independence. Can’t recommend it highly enough.

Educate them in the perils and pitfalls of life. Tell them not to fear them, but be aware of them, then let them know you expect them to take it from there. Kids are far more capable then we give them credit for. Not long ago they were forced to work in factories to help provide for the family.

Yes, but substance abuse, ceiminality and mortality of factory kids were all huge by our standards. They were not really handling it.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#305

Post by kazinator » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:05 AM UTC

rychco wrote: post #221

jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a pa…

No amount of zoning reform can fix the fact that it's not safe for kids in America, because it's crawling with predators. Even if you have school, shop, friends, and all that, within four blocks of each other.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#306

Post by loa_in_ » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:06 AM UTC

john_the_writer wrote: post #289

UncleOxidant wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we just be more like the US was before about the 90s? As a kid who grew up in the 70s there's really a lot of truth to the "70's mom" memes/jokes. I could go with my buddies night fishing down on a pier on the bay about a mile away when I was 10 - we just had to be back by 10PM. That wouldn't happen now.

Your mom would get arrested now. Even if she wanted to let you. I've a 12 year old... Last year I was reading at a table in the library, and he was less than 20 feet away from me in the children's section reading quietly on a couch. A security guard came up to me and told me I had to have him always in my sight. When I do groceries I typically give my kids one half of the list and a cart, and they go off. I can't cou…

> Your mom would get arrested now. Even if she wanted to let you.

Instead children's development is being arrested, apparently. Albeit in a different sense.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#307

Post by watwut » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:08 AM UTC

jasonhansel wrote: post #110

julianeon wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we be more like Germany? Presumably German parents prepare their kids early. I'm just not sure what changes this would involve parents making.

I think so-called "free-range parenting" may be what they have in mind.

Yeah, but they tend to get outraged over ridiculous stuff periodically. I stopped caring about that group for this reason.

I mean, there were articles and think pieces about complete nothing burgers. Like someone seen a mom put blanket on grass and cut cucumber and give it to kid. There was whole think piece about overprotection and fear and fatness, all of those purely projected on woman that just ... cut cucumber.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#308

Post by loa_in_ » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:09 AM UTC

prox wrote: post #291

mbg721 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The seeds were planted long before 9/11. I was born in the 80s, and even I saw something wasn't right. The Nancy Reagan War on Drugs and Stranger Danger were there already.

I see three comments saying it was there before 9/11, but really, the fear dial was amped to 11 then. It was a milestone in that sense. Furthermore, journalism changed dramatically. Instead of more open ended questions, especially TV interviews started treating guests like enemies for example “Why didn’t you do X?” to a guest, instead of saying “Can you tell us what you did?” Also more subtle changes in how media rep…

> I see three comments saying it was there before 9/11, but really, the fear dial was amped to 11 then.

If you look for security reasons, you'll find security reasons, for everything. It's like like applying a caricature of scientific method to gaslight someone.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#309

Post by jonp888 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:09 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #299

this_user wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, US colleges/universities seem more like boarding schools. Here, no university would think that they have any business interfering with students' personal lives or anything they do outside a lecture hall, because they are considered adults. More broadly speaking, there seems to be a tendency in current US culture of infantilising young adults. I have repeatedly seen people in their early 20s referred to…

I think that point is overstated. The EU universities provide housing to students too and it is not that massively different, except Greek life. And I swear overwhelming majority of these comics comes from frats who are in power play against university. Every time I dug into specific issues, it turns out being just a bunch of manipulative claims.

But is it not common to force students, as a condition of attending lectures, to live in university housing, and to eat university provided meals?

And it is not the case that university housing comes with "advisers" who ensure you are living in an approved way? (And for some bizarre reason you cannot have your own bedroom, you have to share - a last ditch effort to obstruct pre-marital sex?)

In the EU anything not associated with studying for a degree is option, and if housing is provided it is just housing without any a special measures to supervise the tenants.

At least in Germany, housing, catering and sports facilities are usually in the hands of a seperate body so there is no incentive for the university to try to use their power over students to force their use.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#310

Post by heavyset_go » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:11 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #298

heavyset_go wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, housing markets have ensured that they will live at home for longer periods of time and may never be able to own, or even rent a place by themselves. Same thing goes for starting families, the costs are insane and even if you have kids, you will barely see them in order to just pay for their childcare itself. Good luck if you can't afford health insurance and care, either. The opportunities to do "adult thing…

> I mean, housing markets have ensured that they will live at home for longer periods of time and may never be able to own, or even rent a place by themselves. That’s not an inevitability; it’s a policy choice. If zoning was less restrictive more housing could be built. The people are getting what they want, good and hard.

I agree, but many of the people who are negatively affected by zoning restrictions were either children and not born yet when those restrictions were implemented. I wouldn't say they're getting what they want.