Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#201

Post by mancerayder » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:16 AM UTC

twayt wrote: post #25

Many young women feel like they’re failures because they can’t meet the unrealistic expectations society has of them to be successful, beautiful and nurturing. Many young men feel like they’re failures because they can’t meet society’s expectations success, attractiveness and fatherhood. Society has always had winners and losers, the global nature of things makes people more aware of higher standards and the threat t…

What you said is all true. The part that is controversial to me about what you said is that these expectations didn't exist even moreso in times past.

My reading of the past, certainly the modern past where we have literature of the time, TV shows of the era, advertising and so on, is that roles-based expectations were even MORE extreme decades and centuries ago.

As I write this I begin to think, maybe one problem is the opposite: the lack of strict guidance and those guardrails have lead to more existential angst. Who am I, what am I to do, is more salient in these times perhaps.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#202

Post by yucky » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:17 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #130

yucky wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cop out, and only reinforces their internalized belief that literally nothing is their own fault. Find a Gen Z person who is fully accountable for their own actions and you will have located a unicorn. It's uncanny how in-sync that entire generation is with the idea that they are not only owed the world, but have no fault. They are crippled by the actions of "others" (whoever the others are doesn't matter -…

That's the same tired stuff people said about Millennials and Gen Xers before them. The younger generations are vastly more open, honest, kind and generous than older generations. They just have significantly less tolerance for hateful people and "punching down". That rubs older generations the wrong way because they tend to hate (or fear) a lot of things and think it's funny/acceptable to punch down.

No, they're too emotionally delicate to even function as adults. And it's a problem.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#203

Post by mancerayder » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:19 AM UTC

twayt wrote: post #28

_mme wrote: post #22

I‘m 42. Here‘s my advice to someone half my age. Have conflicts. Put your heart into it. If you loose, you receive some truth. If you win you give some truth. The outcome does not matter if it means you grow. Go eat or drink together as if nothing happened.

The prerequisite for this is a healthy foundation of self belief. Young adults out there are getting hammered by messages that imply that they are fundamentally flawed and will never stack up. It’s a fragile place to be

The messages need to be questioned. Questioning authority, your peers and the society as a whole is an important step to develop a sense of self. It means you might be perceived as a rebel or immature at times. Sometimes you can't give a shit what other people think about you: I do not see that message being reinforced. I see vicious conformity among American youth.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#204

Post by williamtrask » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:26 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #188

williamtrask wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the sake of the survival of the planet/species, I also don't think any institution based around magical thinking should fill the gap. I know this won’t be a popular point, but I think we have nearly all of human history as evidence that “magical believing” societies survive more effectively than not. At any time literally any tribe could have chosen to believe in nothing. It’s almost impossible to think that no…

>I know this won’t be a popular point, but I think we have nearly all of human history as evidence that “magical believing” societies survive more effectively than not. I disagree. "more effectively than not" is an implicit comparison between "magical believing" societies and "non magical believing" (in other words, scientific) societies. Given the latter allows modern medicine, surgery, sanitation, mass food product…

Science has given many things, and as a professional research scientist, I help it continue to do so. I by no means think science should go away.

However, it also created the ability for humanity to destroy itself: the nuclear bomb, climate change, and plenty of other existential threats.

Also there are plenty of non-tech tribes which display tremendous lifespans. To my knowledge, the common threads among centenarians is not usually tech or globalisation driven. Often they’re religious and they’re very often closely knit with their local communities.

The jury is still out on whether science is net positive. We’re only a few hundreds if years in (12,000 if you want to start with the dawn of technology…being the plow).

It’s made lives better and worse while simultaneously significantly decreasing the amount and depth to which humans believe they have a purpose, a pursuit I feel science has made little to no progress on.

But my stronger point is that magical thinking was naturally selected (as in natural selection) to be almost universally advantageous for the first 99% of human existence. I’m not sure our 1% experiment with a scientific society is as of yet conclusively better. We’ve almost made humans extinct. We might still. I don’t know of a magical belief (karma, etc.) that has put humanity in such a grave threat as the Cold War or climate change, for example.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#205

Post by moonchrome » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:27 AM UTC

bhaney wrote: post #145

moonchrome wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The primary, actual risks to children who are roaming are those that involve law enforcement and intolerant adults. Any statistics on that ? I grew up in 90s and in a family with 5 younger siblings my mother couldn't keep up. I got hit by a car running across the street at 6 (I think I was that age). I would roam local forest and street - visiting there recently I remembered how I went to pick up my ball once and n…

I wonder about this a lot. I have a handful of similar stories about nearly dying as a child too, as do most of my friends. But none of us have any stories about knowing someone who accidentally died as a result of doing something dangerous as a kid, even though I'd expect a few of those given how dangerous we all think our childhoods were. Of course, with the reach of the Internet, I'm sure at least somebody reading…

Seeing how I was the odd one out in my generation (poor/large family in the neighborhood) comparing myself to peers I don't see the value of my undirected roaming.

For example I remember having a huge leap in physical abilities when I started takng taekwondo classes around that age. After school activities let me thinker with stuff.

Roaming around was just lack of better things to do. Not really seeing what my peers without those near death experiences missed out on.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#206

Post by twayt » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:30 AM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #201

twayt wrote: post #25

Many young women feel like they’re failures because they can’t meet the unrealistic expectations society has of them to be successful, beautiful and nurturing. Many young men feel like they’re failures because they can’t meet society’s expectations success, attractiveness and fatherhood. Society has always had winners and losers, the global nature of things makes people more aware of higher standards and the threat t…

What you said is all true. The part that is controversial to me about what you said is that these expectations didn't exist even moreso in times past. My reading of the past, certainly the modern past where we have literature of the time, TV shows of the era, advertising and so on, is that roles-based expectations were even MORE extreme decades and centuries ago. As I write this I begin to think, maybe one problem is…

Rigid expectations may have been more prevalent but they most certainly were also more attainable because the competitive group was smaller.

Rigid expectations might actually be better for humans. Having multiple potential paths and failing at all of them due to unconcentrated effort is worse

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#207

Post by Beaver117 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:31 AM UTC

xabotage wrote: post #115

meowtimemania wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the modern replacement for religion? Growing up I felt like I had this huge tight-knit community via the mormon church. I've since left mormonism and don't think I'll ever find a replacement for the community I had in the church.

There won't be an exact replacement because the circumstances that led to the community cannot (or rather, should not) be replicated. For the sake of the survival of the planet/species, I also don't think any institution based around magical thinking should fill the gap. Keep in mind that high-demand religions require a huge investment of time and money. Devoting even just a fraction of those resources to hobbies, ar…

Hobbies and art classes can't ever fill the void that religion left. We have no real solution to this problem

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#208

Post by lostmsu » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:33 AM UTC

this_user wrote: post #125

OJFord wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college Except American children away from home 'for college' are still exactly 'children', home with different parents. The culture of halls and canteens and the way it's funded is much more 'provided for you' than 'you're providing for yourself now'. I don't get the sense (from NA undergrads I've known, film, etc.) that much learning to cook go…

As a European, US colleges/universities seem more like boarding schools. Here, no university would think that they have any business interfering with students' personal lives or anything they do outside a lecture hall, because they are considered adults. More broadly speaking, there seems to be a tendency in current US culture of infantilising young adults. I have repeatedly seen people in their early 20s referred to…

From my sample of 1 young adults no longer fight to be treated like grown-ups. Moreover, don't seem to want that in the first place.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#209

Post by grepfru_it » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:35 AM UTC

jasonhansel wrote: post #110

julianeon wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we be more like Germany? Presumably German parents prepare their kids early. I'm just not sure what changes this would involve parents making.

I think so-called "free-range parenting" may be what they have in mind.

I would love to do this but I live in a major city. Our neighborhood is relatively quiet but there is the random stranger and speeding car to think about. For me it’s delaying and limiting how much range my children get in their youth

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#210

Post by SamoyedFurFluff » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:35 AM UTC

yucky wrote: post #202

standardUser wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the same tired stuff people said about Millennials and Gen Xers before them. The younger generations are vastly more open, honest, kind and generous than older generations. They just have significantly less tolerance for hateful people and "punching down". That rubs older generations the wrong way because they tend to hate (or fear) a lot of things and think it's funny/acceptable to punch down.

No, they're too emotionally delicate to even function as adults. And it's a problem.

Do you have citations that genz are less functional than millennials at the same age? Genz don’t strike me as more emotionally delicate than I’d expect the average young adult. The millennials did the whole occupy Wall Street during the Great Recession, after all. Genz can have their moment too.