Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

thecolumn.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 277 posts

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#191

Post by fallous »

mattwilsoninc2 wrote: post #171

Another similar notion is with credit card payments for convenience items at bakeries, deli, and pizza restaurants. A company called "4shifts" is notorious for telling owners to place a sign on the register "a convenience charge of 3.5% will be added to the sale if you use a credit card". Add the 3.5% plus sales tax which increases the sale by 8% - 12% depending on the state you live in. 4shifts is also used in major…

That sounds like a violation of the Visa/Mastercard agreement. Those networks do, in fact, charge the merchant for the use of the network but their licensing agreement specifically prohibits mentioning that surcharge or passing it on to the customer. Instead the allowable method is to provide a "cash discount."

That surcharge is also why most credit card terminals default to debit card when presented Visa/MC debit card is used. Debit cards incur a lower fee from the network than the credit card fee. Of course the customer also has less recourse using debit vs credit when it comes to chargebacks, extended warranties, etc.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#192

Post by caconym_ »

phpisthebest wrote: post #49
rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

> There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it.

Citation needed. My experiences at no-tipping restaurants have been the absolute opposite of your claims: great food, great service, and no fucking around with tipping afterwards.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#193

Post by jonathantf2 »

8bitsrule wrote: post #33

>The waiter hasn’t been replaced by an iPad, they’ve been replaced by you. I've noticed as well that in grocery-store lines. Where customers are being conditioned to patiently wait in long lines to be next at the checkout machines. To wave their purchases over lasers, then pack them into each and every bag they'll pay for. Be careful what you put in the bagging area! the machines' metallic voices shriek at the custom…

The shop I use has the "scan as you shop" scanner guns, if I'm doing a big shop they're so much more convenient than having to load and unload at either a self or normal checkout.

If I'm only getting a few things I'll use the self checkouts, this store doesn't use the scales to weigh the "bagging area" so it's as easy as scanning the items, Apple Pay and away I go. As an autistic person I much prefer this experience to having to awkwardly stand and make small talk with a cashier.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#194

Post by bamboozled »

WalterBright wrote: post #157

The article complains about automation replacing workers. This complaint goes back to the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, but automation has enabled us to sit in warm houses and watch Netflix all day rather than spending every day picking bugs off of our crops. The other thing it complains about is cutting costs. Well, Southwest has the cheapest air fares. You don't get top flight customer service when you bu…

On the other hand I went to a nice restaurant the other night that wanted me to use an automated app to order, I found it somewhat offensive.

There are times I actually enjoy not looking at any type of screen and having a nice meal is one of those times.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#195

Post by richbell »

refurb wrote: post #109

This is kind of a bizarre article that tries to view the world through some sort of class struggle. Airlines make choices about how to run their business. Consumers make choices about which business to give their money to. If businesses screw up, then consumers leave. It’s really that simple.

> This is kind of a bizarre article that tries to view the world through some sort of class struggle.

What exactly is bizarre about it? The world is a class struggle.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#196

Post by gruez »

dragonwriter wrote: post #163
gruez wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "claim" that order. Tipping is mandatory if you want to get your food in any reasonable timeframe. Honestly this is great, for two reasons: 1. You're letting the market figure out the right price for delivery service at any given moment, which reduces deadweight loss. For i…

> You're letting the market figure out the right price for delivery service at any given moment No, you aren’t, because there is no clear signal to the buyer about acceptable price (except, the outright fraudulent , if one accepts that the tip is actually part of the delivery charge, membership + delivery free charged by the intermediary). > It strengthens the case for DSPs treating their delivery workers as contract…

>No, you aren’t, because there is no clear signal to the buyer about acceptable price (except, the outright fraudulent, if one accepts that the tip is actually part of the delivery charge, membership + delivery free charged by the intermediary).

See my edits.

>Unless you are a shareholder of the DSP, this isn’t a benefit.

The existence of gig jobs is a benefit for people who can't work regular hours, and therefore can't get jobs as "employees" (delivery or otherwise).

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#197

Post by matthewdgreen »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #84
joshstrange wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Not only is tipping a scourge but it doesn't even try to hide what it is, you paying the worker for doing the minimum. In a lot of apps/websites you have to enter a tip before any service is rendered and you have no option to change it later if the service is bad. For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "c…

> For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "claim" that order. Tipping is mandatory if you want to get your food in any reasonable timeframe. On the other hand, I was recently doing searches for "food near me" and the UberEats / DoorDash delivery fees were under $1. I'm not really pleased that useful search results…

The fees get charged to the restaurant. The restaurants make up for it by charging higher prices on their (delivery) food. This is in addition to the "delivery fee" those services advertise and the extra "service fees" some services don't show you until you check out (look under "taxes and fees".)

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#198

Post by baron816 »

kadomony wrote: post #52
lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

If a business is pushing for tips (those dumbass Toast POS consoles that now often start tipping at 20% ), the workers are underpaid. Tipping is getting out of control, and businesses just need to pay more. Tipping is a stupid concept. Japan has the number three economy in the world and they'll refuse tips. Watch https://youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE and tell me that he's wrong.

> the workers are underpaid

What's your definition of "underpaid"? What does anyone deserve to get paid?

It's really really difficult to create some sort of moral framework around the jobs people do and the rewards they get for doing them (does a plumber deserve to get paid more than a dental hygienist?). Capitalism is efficient because it doesn't try to. It just rewards people for supplying the things others want.

"Underpaid"/"overpaid" would have to be relative to what markets pay. But if all servers receive tips, that's just what the market is doing.

More simply, you wouldn't argue that janitors are correctly paid, just because they don't receive tips. They just don't have the surface to collect them.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#199

Post by mattm »

> Deliberate understaffing

I previously lived in Japan and this was such a big difference compared to the US. In US stores it can take minutes to find someone if you have a question and when you do find someone they'll usually be dealing with something else. In Japan stores had so much staff that a store employee was always within a stone's throw away. The same thing at restaurants.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#200

Post by Consultant32452 »

adra wrote: post #99
Consultant32452 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer systems that encourage near universal tax fraud. That is why tipping culture is a feature, not a bug. If someone can propose another way of compensating workers that provides equal ease through which workers can skirt the law, I could easily be swayed, but this feature must remain.

I'm not sure why rampant fraud can ever be justified in a democracy. You take direct control of forming establishment to the greatest percentage of the populace who will ultimately choose the rules (how representationally biased being completely dependent on your nation). Vs the anarchism/libertarian model you seem to espouse which sets control in the hands of those who bully the rest. Those that drive corruption and…

>You take direct control of forming establishment to the greatest percentage of the populace who will ultimately choose the rules

This is a fantasy. https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-...

>Those that drive corruption and cheating the max are the winners in this world

This is the status quo. All the rules are written to keep some very undesirable people in positions of power over you.

Post reply on HN