SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#181

Post by richbell » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

fargle wrote: post #130

xrd wrote: post #104

Anyone here reading this, did it change your opinion on the increase in theft at retail stores during the pandemic? Are there people that now realize no one cares who works for Walmart so why not just steal stuff freely? And, they do it because they think that Walmart has destroyed their local economy? I'm not asserting that all is true, just saying it would be an interesting story behind the theft.

no. people steal stuff so freely because they don't get prosecuted or punished. and they do it in the first place because they can sell the stuff and buy meth. they 100% aren't worried about gentrification issues or the local economy, etc.

> people steal stuff so freely because they don't get prosecuted or punished.

> and they do it in the first place because they can sell the stuff and buy meth. they 100% aren't worried about gentrification issues or the local economy, etc.

People also steal stuff increasingly because they need it and cannot afford it. In the past few years thefts of things like groceries and diapers have shot up. It's depressing, really.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#182

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #114

stemlord wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, You mean like most restaurants in europe? Yes the service there is on average worse than in American restaurants because of tips, but in my opinion not by enough of a margin to cost me 20% every time. The times that you would tip at a eu restaurant, its something reasonable well below the ridiculous 20% average that American businesses have swindled into exi…

Europe has a completely different cultural model. One of the most important services the waitstaff provides (for me anyway) is ensuring my beverages are refilled. This concept does not exist really where as they pay for every refill. This also changes the business dynamics as the Restaurant wants the waitstaff to "always be selling" to increase ticket revenue. The US has a less hard sell model and free refills. That…

This is only true for people who don't drink alcohol with their meal.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#183

Post by alwayslikethis » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

mattwilsoninc2 wrote: post #171

Another similar notion is with credit card payments for convenience items at bakeries, deli, and pizza restaurants. A company called "4shifts" is notorious for telling owners to place a sign on the register "a convenience charge of 3.5% will be added to the sale if you use a credit card". Add the 3.5% plus sales tax which increases the sale by 8% - 12% depending on the state you live in. 4shifts is also used in major…

Why should they bear the cost of credit card payment processing? Cash buyers shouldn't have to subsidize credit card users.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#184

Post by dpkirchner » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

gearsandbeers wrote: post #155

barbariangrunge wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually used to be 10%. It’s crept upwards for years

I do wonder why it’s creeping upward though given it’s proportional and would increase as prices increase - perhaps it’s a symptom of employers paying even less after controlling for inflation etc. when comparing then vs now

The minimum wage (roughly what tipped workers earn) has been falling for decades, so I think at least some of the upward creep can be attributed to the knowledge that the workers are getting screwed, hard.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#185

Post by pyth0 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:14 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #153

stemlord wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>lawyers >civil engineers How do you find it a reasonable argument to compare upper-end office workers to service industry employees? Are you saying lawyers and engineers are paying their mortgages with tips?

No, I was responding to the logic (which I think is erroneous) of: > If a business is pushing for tips (those dumbass Toast POS consoles that now often start tipping at 20%), the workers are underpaid. If the argument is “if workers are paying for their mortgage with tips, then they are underpaid”, then I would respond that analyzing each individual’s cost structure to determine how much you should pay them is, at th…

I think the much more obvious point was that you generally only tip (and therefore would see a tip popup on the POS) at places where the tips really are an important part of their take home. I don't think that line of thinking is erroneous. Where I'm located in one of the provinces, until only recently places could pay subminimum wage to service staff under the assumption that it was covered by tips.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#186

Post by 2253539242 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:14 AM UTC

OM

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#187

Post by standardUser » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:14 AM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #165

standardUser wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of a living wage is not new and it is calculated and used by many governments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage

the problem here is none of that is actually connected to what a person needs. "Living Wage" Laws are just a different way to implement minimum wages, none of the laws shown on that page are connected to any kind of structure or process by which things needed to "live" like food, housing etc are tabulated where by a wage is set. it is just a arbitrary wage picked by legislatures exactly like a "minimum wage" law only…

The numbers are in fact calculated, not pulled out of thin air. You seem to be cynically assuming they are not with no proof and no interest in proof one way or the other.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#188

Post by QIYGT » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:15 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #84

joshstrange wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Not only is tipping a scourge but it doesn't even try to hide what it is, you paying the worker for doing the minimum. In a lot of apps/websites you have to enter a tip before any service is rendered and you have no option to change it later if the service is bad. For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "c…

> For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "claim" that order. Tipping is mandatory if you want to get your food in any reasonable timeframe. On the other hand, I was recently doing searches for "food near me" and the UberEats / DoorDash delivery fees were under $1. I'm not really pleased that useful search results…

> UberEats / DoorDash delivery fees were under $1

They have a low fixed "delivery fee" that they advertise heavily and then add a 15% "service fee" for the customer and also charge the restaurant a percentage.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#189

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:15 AM UTC

gearsandbeers wrote: post #77

jmugan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I've had pretty bad service recently at places where you tip. I still top 20% out of guilt, but it might be that service in general is poorer now.

When did tipping 20% become standard in the US? I was talking to a colleague about this recently and they mentioned it but I could’ve sworn it used to be 15%

During the pandemic. 15% used to be the norm, then people (including me) started paying a bit more to help out restaurant workers who were dealing with a sudden precipitous drop in business. I'm about over it though.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#190

Post by phpisthebest » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 2:16 AM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #168

phpisthebest wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how that is a "sensible metric", how would you even begin to create a wage around that? What is "supporting yourself" even mean? Does a teenager need to make the same wage as a mother of 3? if there are 2 20yo waitstaff one is a single mother living alone, and the other is guy living in his parents basement should one be paid differently due to their life situation? This is problem with basing wages on…

All of those examples should be able to afford the basics off their wage. An apartment that isn’t three hours from work or requiring hot beds, transportation, food, healthcare, etc. Yes, it gets complicated, but “$7.25/hr isn’t enough” is not complicated.

Amazing the market already figured that out. I would love to know what jobs out there are paying $7.25

Not everything needs a government mandate. Every drive thru, and service job I see is has $13, $15, $16 per hour wages, and this is in the midwest where the median income is hovering around 50-55K