SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#131

Post by SapporoChris » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:52 AM UTC

carbocation wrote: post #25

monero-xmr wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Since you're quoting the part about QR codes for restaurants: I have had good experiences at bars and restaurants where I input my orders online whenever I want, perhaps multiple times throughout the meal, and the waitstaff bring them out promptly. I obviously don't have data, but it feels twice as fast since I never have to wave people down just to relay my orders. This isn't for everyone, and it's not for every sit…

I ate at Jonathan's recently. I liked how they're reducing staff. Every table had a tablet for ordering. However, if you did not wish to use the tablet, you could press a button that was installed on the table to summon waitstaff.

My beer was brought swiftly by waitstaff. My meal was delivered on an automated cart. I had to get up to get my order, but I was to impressed by the automated cart to be annoyed at any inconvenience.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#132

Post by jen20 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:52 AM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #94

fcarraldo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an interesting thought. Google, for most consumer products (and a good number of business ones) notoriously has next to no phone support at all. Is this an indication of being a market leader or of being a digital monopoly?

Google for paid products has phone support. From a quick check, 2-3 min answer time for calls or chat from google one on cheapest plan. If you use the free option, the no support is given which is fair, you're not a customer

My experience of Google is that you can be the smallest (paying) customer or the largest enterprise, and the support is still trash.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#133

Post by gruez » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:52 AM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #96

gruez wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "claim" that order. Tipping is mandatory if you want to get your food in any reasonable timeframe. Honestly this is great, for two reasons: 1. You're letting the market figure out the right price for delivery service at any given moment, which reduces deadweight loss. For i…

That sounds like hell. Also as a consumer I have absolutely zero information on how busy drivers are, if my tip needs to be > $X to get picked up faster, if more drivers will login if I tip $X or greater, nor do I have a way to increase my tip if drivers aren’t “biting”. IF I had that information/ability I’d concede to part of your point but I don’t and even if I did I hate that idea with a fiery passion. If that’s t…

>Also as a consumer I have absolutely zero information on how busy drivers are, if my tip needs to be > $X to get picked up faster, if more drivers will login if I tip $X or greater, nor do I have a way to increase my tip if drivers aren’t “biting”.

Why do you expect that the app won't have such information displayed? The UX isn't hard. It seems pretty trivial to show a bid/ask chart of delivery prices, along with stats like how many drivers are online and how many orders are coming in. You could even use those pieces of information to come up with an estimate for how much you have to bid to get a driver within n minutes.

edit:

I re-read my original comment and realized that it was worded in such a way that implied that I supported the state of affairs that the gp described. To be clear, I'm only advocating for letting the price be determined dynamically.

>If that’s the world we are going to live in then why am I paying a membership fee AND service fees?

I don't see how this is relevant to my proposal. It's already the case today that you can get charged a membership fee (eg. uber one) and get charged delivery/service fees.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#134

Post by SavageBeast » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:53 AM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

Good lord, THIS 100%!!

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#135

Post by insane_dreamer » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:53 AM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #49

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

Strong disagree. You can still tip at restaurants where the service is already added to the bill automatically (so you go in knowing the meal will cost 20% more than what the listed prices are, just like you know that when something says $199 it's actually $210 once you add sales tax). You can always also tip in appreciation for the service (so high performers can get more) but you're not feeling like you're forced to tip just to bring workers' wages up to the minimum level.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#136

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:55 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #82

joshstrange wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Not only is tipping a scourge but it doesn't even try to hide what it is, you paying the worker for doing the minimum. In a lot of apps/websites you have to enter a tip before any service is rendered and you have no option to change it later if the service is bad. For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "c…

>For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "claim" that order. Tipping is mandatory if you want to get your food in any reasonable timeframe. Honestly this is great, for two reasons: 1. You're letting the market figure out the right price for delivery service at any given moment, which reduces deadweight loss. For i…

I want food. I don’t want to find the intercept between curves. I don’t want to see how busy or not your workers are. I just want my food. If I don’t get my food, I’m blaming you. I stopped using Seamless and, after GrubHub bought them, Caviar, because of this B.S.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#137

Post by insane_dreamer » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:55 AM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

> Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company

Absolutely. Prices should be raised to cover reasonable salaries (making up the gap covered by tips nowadays), and then if you were really happy with the service and want to tip more, you can.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#138

Post by lp4vn » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:55 AM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #49

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

The tipping the way it's done in America only exists in America, in the rest of the world it's not like that and consumers and staff are ok with that. Also your idea that tip creates a micro free market where highly effective staff makes a lot of money and poor performers are penalized is politically motivated, someone had to tell you this.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#139

Post by StillBored » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:55 AM UTC

I got stuck in this, and saw a new low while waiting in DCA with respect to QR code based menus.

All the service bars in the first terminal have ipad style devices in front of the seats displaying a QR code. The expectation is that you scan the QR code off the ipad, and order using your phone/etc! Then pay with the ipad, which actually pissed me off more than sitting in the terminal for 8 hours while my flight was delayed in 10 min chunks. Initially I was unaware what was going on, and just sauntered up to a free spot on the bar, and tried to order a drink. Bartender explains that I have to use one of the ipads, which I shrugged and was like, ok, but then largely stared blankly at because it had a couple buttons (pay, order water, play games, etc) none of which were "order food/drinks/etc". Gave up when told that the bartender couldn't just serve me, and that the ipad thinngy couldn't take my order. WTF, kind of crazy nonsense is it to populate POS style terminals at every table, then fail to be able to order from them? Not only that apparently every single restaurant/etc is owned/using the same crap system so there isn't a choice to just go to the bar without.

Anyway, I got lucky because the SW captain grabbed a crew that still had hours and were suppose to be spending the night at my destination and told them they were working his plane...

Which itself was crazy, I'm pretty shocked that SW still doesn't have an automated system that "heals" the route network/etc when something like this goes wrong, and then sends updates to the flight crews/etc in question. You would think that after 2016 (when the exact same thing happened) they would have hired a couple "hackers" to just make it work...

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#140

Post by bluedino » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:56 AM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #49

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

> There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more)

Similar to the argument against unions.