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SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

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121–130 of 277 posts

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

> The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. One sensible metric is that you should be able to support yourself while living in the area you work (or an area nearby such that it isn't a significant financial hardship or timesink to commute to work). Service jobs largely fail on that metric, effectively using government money and family support structures…

Support yourself living in a large house with a nice car and a family? Or support yourself as a single person living in a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 other roommates? Or support yourself with enough money to have some spending cash as you work your way through high-school and live with your parents?

The idea that a job shouldn't exist if it is only something that would interest a high-school student or uneducated young adult who is willing to live with lots of roommates creates fewer opportunities at the low end--not more.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#122
post #86

The main thing Southwest's issues show is how quickly you can burn through consumer goodwill. For years their bread and butter was being the "We're not like the other airlines" airline, and now here we are. It's almost as though all that sophisticated brand theory was a load of hogwash the whole time.

> It's almost as though all that sophisticated brand theory was a load of hogwash the whole time.

I don't get it, how does them "burning through consumer goodwill" through their issues show that "sophisticated brand theory" (ie. "We're not like the other airlines") is bullshit? If anything it shows that it's working exactly as advertised. When they were "not like the other airlines" they were liked, and now they're hated.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#123

>The waiter hasn’t been replaced by an iPad, they’ve been replaced by you. I've noticed as well that in grocery-store lines. Where customers are being conditioned to patiently wait in long lines to be next at the checkout machines. To wave their purchases over lasers, then pack them into each and every bag they'll pay for. Be careful what you put in the bagging area! the machines' metallic voices shriek at the custom…

I recall reading that when they introduced self-service checkouts theft went up significantly; people were much less reluctant to still if they were only being served by a machine. However the solution was not to simply go back to use manned registers again, but instead make the systems for theft detection more sophisticated. I wouldn't even be surprised if the final systems that we have now are not even cheaper than manned registers, but the way the transition worked was that it was always sold on "potential savings" on idealised conditions.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#124
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue automated call centers are a problem. If you end up needing to call someone since you've exhausted all other avenues you do want to talk to someone. At that point you will either: - waste a lot of time navigating prompts until you give up or reach a human. - automated call center will decide that prompt it gave you is the correct one and close your call... (had this happen a lot...) - automated call cen…

> automated call center asks you to state your issue, does speech to text, does a stupid prompt and close I usually just talk complete nonsense to these prompts (but valid English sentences). That way the automation gives up when it can parse the sentences but can’t intuit meaning from them.

last time i tried that i got a 'please repeat' a couple times and call closed.

On the other hand, calling a bank and saying you'd like to report fraud to the prompt directs you really fast to customer support.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#125
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. One sensible metric is that you should be able to support yourself while living in the area you work (or an area nearby such that it isn't a significant financial hardship or timesink to commute to work). Service jobs largely fail on that metric, effectively using government money and family support structures…

In many places low wage workers commute into HCOL areas. Being able to live in Manhattan on waiter's earnings is wishful thinking. Waiters are dime a dozen, and it's ridiculous to suggest they could possibly be making enough to live with mega high earners

Read the statement more closely: you can either tackle this problem by raising wages, or by reducing the financial and logistical burden of commuting (or both!). Manhattan isn't a good example for your case: millions of people (like myself) commute cheaply and easily into the borough each day to work.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

>There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, You mean like most restaurants in europe? Yes the service there is on average worse than in American restaurants because of tips, but in my opinion not by enough of a margin to cost me 20% every time. The times that you would tip at a eu restaurant, its something reasonable well below the ridiculous 20% average that American businesses have swindled into exi…

The definition of 'good' and 'bad' table service is also very cultural. I am from a non-tipping country and I find American style table waiting very overbearing, bottomless refills are not a thing here (except table water). I dont want to make small talk with the waiter, I'm there to eat with my party.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business is pushing for tips (those dumbass Toast POS consoles that now often start tipping at 20% ), the workers are underpaid. Tipping is getting out of control, and businesses just need to pay more. Tipping is a stupid concept. Japan has the number three economy in the world and they'll refuse tips. Watch https://youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE and tell me that he's wrong.

So if my law firm sent an invoice that had a tip line on it, that would indicate the lawyers are underpaid? I am going to need a better definition of overpaid and underpaid, and the Reservoir Dogs quip about women only being able to be economically independent due to tips is also going to need a source.

>lawyers >civil engineers

How do you find it a reasonable argument to compare upper-end office workers to service industry employees? Are you saying lawyers and engineers are paying their mortgages with tips?

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#128
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

workers who are paid well usually dont have tip jars.

False. So many comments in this thread seem like they’re written by people who have never worked jobs with tipping.

When I worked as a server, tips were far preferable to salary.

We’d get $10/hr plus tips, which could work out to $30/hr on average.

We had people who came from other server jobs paying $20/hr with no tips who felt they were getting screwed.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#129
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue automated call centers are a problem. If you end up needing to call someone since you've exhausted all other avenues you do want to talk to someone. At that point you will either: - waste a lot of time navigating prompts until you give up or reach a human. - automated call center will decide that prompt it gave you is the correct one and close your call... (had this happen a lot...) - automated call cen…

> automated call center asks you to state your issue, does speech to text, does a stupid prompt and close I usually just talk complete nonsense to these prompts (but valid English sentences). That way the automation gives up when it can parse the sentences but can’t intuit meaning from them.

My approach is to mash the keys until it gives up. This has a pretty high success rate.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#130
post #104

Anyone here reading this, did it change your opinion on the increase in theft at retail stores during the pandemic? Are there people that now realize no one cares who works for Walmart so why not just steal stuff freely? And, they do it because they think that Walmart has destroyed their local economy? I'm not asserting that all is true, just saying it would be an interesting story behind the theft.

no.

people steal stuff so freely because they don't get prosecuted or punished.

and they do it in the first place because they can sell the stuff and buy meth. they 100% aren't worried about gentrification issues or the local economy, etc.

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