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SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

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Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#71

Post by actually_a_dog »

barbazoo wrote: post #48
Eisenstein wrote: post #35

> Southwest Airlines ticketing agents, cashiers at Nando’s Chicken, low-wage call center workers for Verizon overseas, become corporate sin eaters This is why it is a good idea to be nice to the people you deal with on the front lines, and write a very politely worded letter to the head of the department at the company you are dealing with, and potentially letters to their boss, and their boss, etc. Mail it, if possi…

How would you go about finding out how to access the manager of some department within MegaCorp? All one can do these days is fill out some contact form and maybe someday getting an email from some noreply email address. I'm also chuckling at the thought of me mentioning that I'm a stock holder. This feels very detached from reality.

The simplest way to find out would be to ask the nice person in front of you who's trying to help you.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#72

Post by phpisthebest »

8bitsrule wrote: post #33

>The waiter hasn’t been replaced by an iPad, they’ve been replaced by you. I've noticed as well that in grocery-store lines. Where customers are being conditioned to patiently wait in long lines to be next at the checkout machines. To wave their purchases over lasers, then pack them into each and every bag they'll pay for. Be careful what you put in the bagging area! the machines' metallic voices shriek at the custom…

>>I've noticed as well that in grocery-store lines. Where customers are being conditioned to patiently wait in long lines to be next at the checkout machines

Man I just realized I have not been inside of a grocery store in over 3 years... Thank god for curb side pickup

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#73

Post by jmbwell »

monero-xmr wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Yeah I don’t know what it has to do with unionized labor necessarily. IAH was renovating and bought a contract with OTG to provide all concessions at the airport. I think the Houston Airport System got scammed, personally, as OTG’s prices are gouging-level exorbitant, and they’ve secured an effective monopoly on services inside the facility. It’s a deplorable situation, and I’m sure workers are suffering. But I think that’s a side effect of OTG’s strategy, which is predatory and abusive overall.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#74

Post by yieldcrv »

mason55 wrote: post #57
rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

One perspective on tipping that made me feel a little different is that it can act as a form of progressive pricing or a sliding scale or “pay what your can afford” It allows places to keep base prices as cheap as possible, which means lots of people can afford to eat out, but people who can afford to pay more can do so. It’s sort of like raising the minimum wage but but having the costs only impact people with highe…

You are just doing the same class division we’re pointing out but consumer to consumer. Even sillier than the worker to consumer reality.

Corporations are in competition with other corporations, which is why there is not dynamic pricing. They are not offering anything worth more than they are offering. Your perspective fails on those merits when the solution is to pay employees correctly and see which corporations were never economical after all.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#75

Post by Consultant32452 »

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

I prefer systems that encourage near universal tax fraud. That is why tipping culture is a feature, not a bug. If someone can propose another way of compensating workers that provides equal ease through which workers can skirt the law, I could easily be swayed, but this feature must remain.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#76

Post by CamperBob2 »

woodruffw wrote: post #65
phpisthebest wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

> The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. One sensible metric is that you should be able to support yourself while living in the area you work (or an area nearby such that it isn't a significant financial hardship or timesink to commute to work). Service jobs largely fail on that metric, effectively using government money and family support structures…

So, nice areas shouldn't have restaurants? Paying waiters and busboys enough money to live in downtown SF while their counterparts in the suburbs are paid what they're getting now will distort the labor market in ways that break the whole thing.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#77

Post by gearsandbeers »

jmugan wrote: post #60
phpisthebest wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

I don't know, I've had pretty bad service recently at places where you tip. I still top 20% out of guilt, but it might be that service in general is poorer now.

When did tipping 20% become standard in the US? I was talking to a colleague about this recently and they mentioned it but I could’ve sworn it used to be 15%

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#78

Post by woodruffw »

wnevets wrote: post #38
lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

workers who are paid well usually dont have tip jars.

Tipped services are tied to cultural expectations, not wages. You don't tip your gas station clerk (who's probably making minimum wage), but you normally tip your bartender at a nice bar.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#79

Post by lotsofpulp »

kadomony wrote: post #52
lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

If a business is pushing for tips (those dumbass Toast POS consoles that now often start tipping at 20% ), the workers are underpaid. Tipping is getting out of control, and businesses just need to pay more. Tipping is a stupid concept. Japan has the number three economy in the world and they'll refuse tips. Watch https://youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE and tell me that he's wrong.

So if my law firm sent an invoice that had a tip line on it, that would indicate the lawyers are underpaid?

I am going to need a better definition of overpaid and underpaid, and the Reservoir Dogs quip about women only being able to be economically independent due to tips is also going to need a source.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#80

Post by woodruffw »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #76
woodruffw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. One sensible metric is that you should be able to support yourself while living in the area you work (or an area nearby such that it isn't a significant financial hardship or timesink to commute to work). Service jobs largely fail on that metric, effectively using government money and family support structures…

So, nice areas shouldn't have restaurants? Paying waiters and busboys enough money to live in downtown SF while their counterparts in the suburbs are paid what they're getting now will distort the labor market in ways that break the whole thing.

> So, nice areas shouldn't have restaurants?

I don't know how you got to that, other than by assuming that nice areas have to be expensive. The fact that SF is unable to achieve both is an indicator of broken local markets and politics, not an ironclad rule for every other locality.

Edit: Another framing is that "nice" and "fancy" are different things, as much as extremely unequal markets like SF distort the distinction.

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